Wylam gantry/signal box

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Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Wylam gantry/signal box

Post by Graeme Leary »

I am endeavouring to replicate the Wylam gantry signal box and would be very grateful if someone could direct me to a manufacturer of the 'criss-cross' lattice work that ran from side to side, just above the supporting straight and curved beams.

My box will have to allow for some 'poetic license' (aka Modeller's Rule 1) as it will be covering 3 tracks and on a curve - not the same as the original but that's how it is for my layout.

Also if there is available window frames in the same format and proportions as Wylam it is not too late for me to amend what I have done already (using a Wills kit I've cannibalised ).

Many thanks.

Graeme Leary
New Zealand
drmditch

Re: Wylam gantry/signal box

Post by drmditch »

Good Morning
I hope you have a good 2023, and are enjoying summer!
I have attached a (rather poor) picture of my model based on Hexham (East) Bridge cabin.
(It being a dull winter day in County Durham it's not a good day to take better pictures.)
Post_00.JPG

There are drawings by J F Addyman in NER Record Vol 1, and I think the same drawings in 'A History of North Eastern Railway Signalling'.

My model is entirely scratch built from card and plastic. Since only five lattice girders are required (three 'cross tracks' and two side to side) I assembled them from small section Evergreen plastic strip. For such work, I draw out a template onto scrap card/plywood, and then lay up the plastic over that. One needs to be methodical and careful of how much solvent one applies.

(If you wish to reduce cost, and are prepared to use a number of scalpel blades, you can cut strips from a stable thin card and glue with card or wood glue.)

Likewise the windows are built by laying them up over a template.
This one isn't as good as might be. My more recent examples can be seen on Page 21 of my 'Make do and Mend' thread. Here the cabin is made up of a 2mm thick transparent acrylic box, with the details layered up over that. For this (Central Division) cabin I made use of ... these.... but they did need a little modifying.
Most of the planking and flooring on both cabins is re-cycled cardboard from various origins.

The roof of the bridge cabin (also a card structure) is a 'plug in' and removable. The interior detail including the levers is made up from what I had available. (The CD cabin is more sophisticated.)

PS _ have found some more pictures from my old railway (the new one will be much better) which show some more of the detail.
Hope these help.
Post_SC_02.jpg
Post_02.JPG
Post_03.JPG
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Dave
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: Wylam gantry/signal box

Post by Dave »

Graeme.
Have look at the Evergreen Plastic site and have a look at shapes, they do L sections and T sections just pick the size you require.

Thats a very nice model Caroline you have built.
Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Wylam gantry/signal box

Post by Graeme Leary »

Many thanks drmditch. That has certainly helped narrow down my options and one difference between Wylam and your Hexham (East) is that from photos I've tracked down is that the sides of Wylam appear to be 'solid' stone and not the double cast iron arches as in Hexham. Stone walls are easy for me to replicate.

I will create the 'criss-cross' lattice detail from lengths of Evergreen plastic and instead of using 'cannibalised' windows from the Wills kit (as the dimensions are all wrong), get the windows to appear more true to scale by using Evergreen strips again to create more correct looking detail as per J F Addyman's details, which have been kindly sent over to me by a fellow Society member. (Yet to do so, but will also check your 'Make do and Mend' thread for more info).

If of interest the above quoted photos of Wylam I picked up on https://www.flickr.com/photos/55727763@NO2/39748870681. There are good pics of the fronts and sides on this link.

Much appreciated, yours is very good looking model.

Graeme Leary
New Zealand
Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Wylam gantry/signal box

Post by Graeme Leary »

Thanks Dave, have had a look at Evergreen's website - is what you describe as L sections their 'angles'? The pics on the website I quoted to drmditch suggest the facing sides (outside the gantry) are flat so therefore I guess most likely to be the L (or angle) shapes.

Also your professional eye could confirm what is the most accurate size moulding to buy. My untrained eye suggests the 1.0 or 1.2mm thickness for the T section or the 0.66 or 0.73 for th 'Angles'.

Graeme
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Dave
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Re: Wylam gantry/signal box

Post by Dave »

Graeme.
I don't have any drawings of the lattice beam that show a size. Looking at the photo's you sent (as the link above does not seem to work) I think the top and bottom horizontal parts would be a L section (the top L would be inverted). The lattice I think would be T sections. I hope someone else on here has the info and will enlighten us. All the flat faces of the lattice you see do not to my eye look like 3 inches (1mm) and not 1.2mm, I think they look a bit slimmer, but you are stuck with Evergreens smallest size, you can always cut it down, I would use 761 T section. It will look ok and remember there are only about 2 other LNER modellers in NZ, whom we know, so nobody else will know will know.

Yes the L is their angle.

See the email reply to your long list of questions.
Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Wylam gantry/signal box

Post by Graeme Leary »

Thanks Dave, off to my local model shop in half an hour to see if they have the Evergreen sections you suggest.

Graeme
drmditch

Re: Wylam gantry/signal box

Post by drmditch »

Sorry if this is late.
I don't think the lattice diagonals are T section.
(or at least not as visible from the 'outside')

There are a number of pictures available on the web.
(searching for 'Wylam Signal Cabin' seems to produce better results than 'Wylam Signal Box' - but you can of course use both!)
Here are two.
hexham2.jpg
Wylam Cabin 1.jpg
(Please respect any copyright on these pictures.)

It is of some concern that the collection curated by Newcastle University attributes the construction of the Wylam Cabin to the Newcastle and Carlisle Railway. (Which was merged with the NER in 1863, and Wylam cabin was built in 1897.) Unfortunately such inaccuracies are all too common, even from institutions which should know better.

The Bridge Cabins (with a few exceptions) largely occurred in the Northern Division. It is fortunate that we have two splendid examples surviving.
(I'm not convinced about the paint colour. My model is going to become darker.) If I can afford the petrol, I may take an excursion to Wylam in the next few days. If I do so, are there any particular features you would like pictures of?

The supporting walls of both Hexham and Wylam are brick, with the Wylam ones appearing to be solid and the Hexham (south side) arched.
The metal arched structure on the north side of the Hexham cabin is not that difficult to model (in plastic, card or brass - or a combination) and has the advantage of having a smaller footprint. The arches (both North/South and East/West may well be cast iron, but I think the vertical columns at this date are more likely to be steel. Fortunately for modelling purposes the difference is not really visible!
Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Wylam gantry/signal box

Post by Graeme Leary »

Thanks for your latest drmditch. Have only just picked your last posting up.

My replication will be very much a 'poetic license' model as it (a) straddles 3 roads and (b) is on a curve - the only place I could show it on my layout.
As much as anything I want to show fellow model club members. Sadly, none would know about these NER types of gantries with cabins and that there were many variations other than the single signal box standing on the ground they're probably used to seeing.

However, as the topic has now become quite engrossing any pics you take that you think might relate I'd be very pleased to see.

On the colour comment it does seem to me that the 'red' in any photos I've seen is too 'red' and should be a more brown/red although I am not convinced that Tamiya's 'red brown' (as recommended for NER modeller's in a link http://www.stationcokours.info/index.php?p=1_4_LNER is not too much the other way, ie too brown. I discussed this with a couple of LNER members today on a skype call and I think they might agree).

I have also played around with Tamiya's XF9 - Hull Red which is marginally 'more red' and their (aerosol)TS-33 Dull Red which appears far too red. If you have any other thoughts I'd be pleased to hear those too (and Tamiya is the most readily available product here in New Zealand with a very wide range of colours - possibly their full range).

Regards,

Graeme Leary
manors
NER Y7 0-4-0T
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Re: Wylam gantry/signal box

Post by manors »

If you go on Google street view there is numerous images of Wylam box you can zoom in at various angles , manors
Graeme Leary
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Wylam gantry/signal box

Post by Graeme Leary »

Thanks manors, will do. Now open to any suggestions regarding 'accurate' colours to use to replicate (as it would have been in NER period).

Graeme
Graeme Leary
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Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Wylam gantry/signal box

Post by Graeme Leary »

Since posting the last earlier today I've been 'experimenting' with brown tones to try and get a colour that is closer to the definition of 'Chocolate' in the appendix to the NE Record Vol 1 which is 'a warm reddish-brown (Methuen 8E8) with lighter and darker variants'.

The Methuen reference is apparently somewhat dated so cannot look at this but rather than a recommendation on the 'stationcolours' link quoted earlier of Tamiya 'Red Brown' (XF-64), I feel Tamiya's 'HULL RED' (XF - 9) seems to meet the NE Record Appendix definition much more closely.

If any other forum members are off on this tangent I'd be interested to hear their thoughts.

Graeme Leary
New Zealand
Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Wylam gantry/signal box

Post by Graeme Leary »

My Wylam gantry box is well under way but all the pics I've been able to find seem to be of a more modern vintage and show just the box on the gantry.

I'm interested to find out if, when built 100 years ago or thereabouts, would the gantry have carried signals - I presume if so, they would semaphore. And also, if so, would these have been operational in the 1920s/30s which is the era I am endeavouring to model.

Many thanks.

Graeme Leary
New Zealand
Trestrol
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Location: Earsdon Grange signal box

Re: Wylam gantry/signal box

Post by Trestrol »

Don't know if this helps but from memory there is a settle seat (high backed wooden seat) that creates a corridor from the entrance door. That was in Hexham and was probably original. Although that was in1988 when I was last in there.
Graeme Leary
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Wylam gantry/signal box

Post by Graeme Leary »

THanks Trestrol but my humble apologies to all. It has been pointed out by one of my learned friends that these types of gantries with signal boxes did not also have signals.

My misunderstanding came about as I have seen pics where a separate gantry (with semaphores) is positioned so close to the raised signal box that it appears the signals are also on the gantry.

Mea culpa.

Graeme
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