Ex-Ian Kirk LNER Coach Kits

[65447]

Seen at the Ely show today, H&A models were selling some ex-Kirk Gresley kits, neatly moulded and packaged, and retailing at £30 (rather than the £25 for the Maunsell kits re-introduced about 4 years ago). I'm informed that Chris Stapleton is producing the kits that are possible from the good moulds, which took some prising out of the reluctant hands of the previous owner, but still has to obtain a substantial number of moulds to complete the transfer. See:

https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/lner-coaches

https://www.hamodels.net/ex-kirk-4mm-ln ... -kits.html

[Jim de Griz]

Its very interesting to see those coming back into production. I might well be interested in picking up a suburban coach to contrast against the predominance of pre-grouping stock I have.

I’ve never actually seen one of the kits in the wild, do they come with bogies etc or do those need to be sourced separately?

Jim de Griz

[mick b]

Kits from the 1970's , basic average mouldings and poor detail parts . You would need to spend double the kit price on MJT etc parts to have something reasonable.

[65447]

Kits from the 1970's , basic average mouldings and poor detail parts . You would need to spend double the kit price on MJT etc parts to have something reasonable.

You were pretty scathing on RMweb too - not everybody wants to go to those lengths and expense and would simply be rather pleased with the news that they are being reintroduced. If eBay prices have been anything to go by, others have been very happy to buy them.

[mick b]

Scathing or the truth ?.

Because they are "cheaper" does'nt make them any better, or in this case the exact oppositte. I presume you have actually built some.

Everybody has their choice and opinion. I would rather pay a bit extra and have a decent result.

[NZRedBaron]

Are they really any different to Hornby's Gresley coaches, which as far as i can tell, have been almost unchanged since about 1978?

[Woodcock29]

Hornby's original gangwayed Gresley carriages, produced many years ago (early 80s?) were replaced with a range of superdetail models from around 2005. Unfortunately the updated range had a major flaw - the sides lacked any significant degree of tumblehome caused by having a floor that was too wide. Otherwise these carriages are very good. The original production run also had incorrectly located centre beading on the lower sides but this was corrected on the full brake and subsequent runs of the other carriages.

Kirk's gangwayed Gresley carriage kits produced from around 1980 were most useful at that time. I built up the mainstay of my Gresley gangwayed stock during the 80s from these - there were something like around 20 different diagrams, and they still run on my layout today until I get around to building a lot more of the brass kits I have accumulated since then.

As Mick said they can be significantly improved with a range of other parts including bogies but most of mine are as built in the 80s which included modifying the domed roof ends and on my later builds squaring up the windows which reduced the apparent depth of the frames. The yellow plastic many came in could easily be lined by scraping the paint off where they needed to be lined.

I even still have some unmade kits but its doubtful I'll ever make the time to build these.

Andrew

[NZRedBaron]

Hornby's original gangwayed Gresley carriages, produced many years ago (early 80s?)
Andrew

I had a 1978 Hornby Railways product catalogue years ago, and they were listed as new tools in that- prior to then, they were still using the Tri-ang era Mk 1's with Thompson styled sides.

[Hatfield Shed]

Are they really any different to Hornby's Gresley coaches, which as far as i can tell, have been almost unchanged since about 1978?

The Kirk kits offered the weird possibility of building into scale models based on actual prototypes; unlike the contemporary UK manufactured RTR OO product which appeared to have as a general basis 'intentional inaccuracy is what we do' and a very limited subject choice.

The Kirk kits weren't perfect, but provided an affordable route to building a decent LNER or BR(ER) coach stock for the layout, with the outcome dependent on the care the builder was prepared to invest. It was way easier than scratchbuilding in plasticard, which had typically taken me three evenings to satisfactorily secure all the beading correctly on one teak bodied coach: thus when introduced I fell on these kits with joy.

They still look well enough to me, as the bodyside profile is distinctly different from the BR mk1, which was a key element in the characteristic appearance of trains on BR(ER) up to the end of steam. The Hornby non-gangwayed Gresley coaches demonstrate that it is now possible to have the bodyside profile well rendered, so if any manufacturer wishes to have a go at getting out a good range of Gresley teak gangwayed stock, I'll gladly send a list of the 30 most useful types.

[Phil Brighton]

Hi Andrew

modifying the domed roof ends

I have been thinking about doing this on some of the Kirk kits I stockpiled when you could still pick them up cheap on eBay.
I would be interested to hear what you did to improve the shape?

Thanks

Phil

[Woodcock29]

Hi Phil
I simply extended the curve further towards the center of the coach by sanding it. Initially with files I think then 'wet and dry' if I remember correctly. I'll see if I can measure one later today and compare it with an unmodified roof.

Squaring up the window openings is also very worth doing. I never had a go at any form of flush glazing. I learnt how to paint teak with Humbrol enamels building these back in the 80s. I've probably still got half dozen or so to build including resin sides from Mailcoach for a Dia 241 RT and Pantry T which are intended to be built onto Kirk floors, ends and roof. I hope I do eventually find time to complete these two as well as finish a BT- 3 and a BCK 2+4 which I started back in 2000 and used as demo subjects for a brief workshop session on painting teak at a British Railway Modellers of Australia convention.

Andrew

[Woodcock29]

I've now measured one of my modified roofs against an unmodified roof and it appears I extended the curve of the domed end back about 4mm.
Andrew

[Hatfield Shed]

That accords with my recollections of fiddling with the 61'6" underframe kits (LNER standard), there's a slight kink in the rainstrips either side of the area that can do with being taken down a little. If you happen to have a 52'6" underframe kit (GE section coaches) to compare with, on those I have seen the rainstrip profile is a smooth curve and the roof dome a little flatter as it transitions to the main elliptical cross section, doesn't require any modification. (Whether this is the case for all examples of both lengths I cannot say.)

[carlislecitadel2]

I wonder how difficult if would be to 3D print a corrected roof profile for these kits now they are being reintroduced? I have about a dozen corridors in my stash, plus a few unbuilt non-corridors which the Hornby models have made redundant.
By any chance would anybody know which diagram numbers were used in the sets that ran between Newcastle and Carlisle? I think they were 5 coach sets which included a buffet car, as per the Hornby model. I came across the info on these sets in a magazine once but soon lost the photocopy I took at the time and have never managed to find the article again. It’s at least 20 years old. I have looked in the Harris books for the CBP but, as far as I can see, the carriage types are not detailed. That’s not to say I have been blind when searching them - an observation frequently pointed out by my better half.

[Phil Brighton]

Thanks. I would be interested to see photos if you have time to post. I had only thought about modifying the end profile of the roof - to make it less a simple arc and the curve to tighten at the edges, if that makes sense.
Alongside a strip to heighten the sides a little.