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Hattons of Liverpool
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 10:39 pm
by strang steel
I have just read a rather shocking piece of news.
Apparently Hattons are closing down soon. They have a page outlining the sad details at
https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail?id=1498
I always thought they were the most stable of the discount model railway suppliers.
Re: Hattons of Liverpool
Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 5:25 am
by NZRedBaron
It's a solemn and somber moment, that's for certain.
Re: Hattons of Liverpool
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 7:02 pm
by Seagull
It does say though that they are closing down as in 'they' decided to close and not they have gone out of business, as in run out of money.
A huge pity though as they were a very visible part of the retail trade and I suggest they helped in the charge that brought a more diverse range of subjects to the market rather than just another iteration of an LNER or LMS Pacific, or a GW Castle or King.
Alan
Re: Hattons of Liverpool
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 9:11 pm
by Atlantic 3279
Whilst I think we need to be careful on here to avoid creating a lengthy and largely pointless discussion of the whys and wherefores of Hattons' closure decision, one thing that I'm bearing in mind is this: It is quite possible for a firm to appear "solvent", according to typical accountancy criteria, while it is still trading at the levels shown in latest accounts, in as much as it is then able to pay its way, but it can be a quite different matter if it is decided (or is necessary) to cease or wind-down trading. Various things that could have been paid off over the course of time then have to be settled sooner than expected, and staff may be entitled to considerable amounts of paid notice plus redundancy money. A solvent liquidation won't automatically follow. My experience has been that accountants assuring businesses of their "solvency" do not routinely consider whether the realisable value of the various "assets" is sufficient to cover end-of-business costs. Time alone will tell in this case.
Re: Hattons of Liverpool
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 9:58 am
by Hatfield Shed
Atlantic 3279 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 9:11 pm
...My experience has been that accountants assuring businesses of their "solvency" do not routinely consider whether the realisable value of the various "assets" is sufficient to cover end-of-business costs. Time alone will tell in this case.
So true. But in 'better news', Hattons 2022-23 accounts showed a significant reserve of cash in hand, which if still available should make a solvent wind up of the business achievable.
Re: Hattons of Liverpool
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:11 pm
by Kestrel
Seems odd that they buy out a firm in the US last year, close it and then close themselves.
Re: Hattons of Liverpool
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 1:20 am
by NZRedBaron
This is just idle speculation, I must clarify, but maybe they bought MB Klein as a way to diversify their portfolio, only to discover that Klein had unexpected debts that had not been disclosed?
Re: Hattons of Liverpool
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 2:04 am
by Pyewipe Junction
I am not a model railway enthusiast, but I do find episodes of 'Sam's Trains' to be interesting whenever they pop up on my YouTube feed.
In one of these 'Sam' suggests that Hattons may be getting out while the going is good, preempting a decline in model railways as a hobby as its market declines. As an aside, electric guitar makers in the US such as Fender and Gibson are facing similar difficulties as there is less interest in guitar-based music.
I have noticed that some of the prices for locos appear to be shockingly expensive for the quality on offer and wonder whether this is also having some effect.
Re: Hattons of Liverpool
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 11:17 am
by Atlantic 3279
I didn't know they'd shut down the US firm, making its purchase appear pointless. Did they really get fingers burned through lack of adequate prior investigation of the US firm's circumstances?
It appears to me that the majority of business in many sectors are now charging (or attempting to charge) ridiculously increased prices for goods and services which in some cases are no better than they used to be, or which have been loaded up with a lot of un-necessary fancy features/gimmicks that many potential customers will never use and probably do not want. The reasons, or the excuses, for the hugely increased prices are I presume an attempt to regain money actually lost (or allegedly lost) during the pandemic restrictions, the end of unrealistically dirt-cheap borrowing rates, plus the remoaners' "let's blame it for everything" favourite of "Brexit". Whilst I truly sympathise with anybody still forced to try to make a living out of a genuine, honest, hugely over-regulated and statutory-cost burdened small business (I got out in 2020, thankfully), I cannot help thinking that in some cases the modern prices are the result of simple greed, hence the new term I read a while ago of "greedflation" rather than inflation.
If the response of many potential customers to hugely increased prices is the same as mine, i.e. walk away and do without, quite happily, then I can fully understand why Hattons might have decided to get out now.
Re: Hattons of Liverpool
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 11:48 am
by Mercator II
Atlantic 3279 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 11:17 am
I didn't know they'd shut down the US firm, making its purchase appear pointless. Did they really get fingers burned through lack of adequate prior investigation of the US firm's circumstances?
It appears to me that the majority of business in many sectors are now charging (or attempting to charge) ridiculously increased prices for goods and services which in some cases are no better than they used to be, or which have been loaded up with a lot of un-necessary fancy features/gimmicks that many potential customers will never use and probably do not want. The reasons, or the excuses, for the hugely increased prices are I presume an attempt to regain money actually lost (or allegedly lost) during the pandemic restrictions, the end of unrealistically dirt-cheap borrowing rates, plus the remoaners' "let's blame it for everything" favourite of "Brexit". Whilst I truly sympathise with anybody still forced to try to make a living out of a genuine, honest, hugely over-regulated and statutory-cost burdened small business (I got out in 2020, thankfully), I cannot help thinking that in some cases the modern prices are the result of simple greed, hence the new term I read a while ago of "greedflation" rather than inflation.
If the response of many potential customers to hugely increased prices is the same as mine, i.e. walk away and do without, quite happily, then I can fully understand why Hattons might have decided to get out now.
I'm with you on this one Graeme, whilst over the last 5 years or so there have been some new locomotives that I would love to add to my stable, I can not justify spending the prices asked, hence not having brought a brand new one at all
Like you, all this DCC stuff isn't my interest, certainly not sound, and the current fashion for flickering fire boxes seams to be someone at design level is trying to recreate their youth from the 80s, it's something that your average person won't see unless you darken the room and turn the lights off
Everything at some point turns up on the second hand market, and you just have to be patient and not get carried away
It's a shame to loose Hattons, but these things happen to bigger brands on the high street (if your town still gas one) and as others have said, if they are getting out now whilst still in a healthy place, then that makes sense
Re: Hattons of Liverpool
Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2024 6:14 pm
by strang steel
I agree with these sentiments, and have bought very little stock (except the A5) over the last few years. I had an email from one of the online model shops who I have done business with previously. They seemed excited about the recent Hornby announcements, and so I had a quick look to see if they were going to bring out a B16 or K2 (I know, but there's nothing like a bit of optimism) and one of the first items I saw for pre-order was an 09 shunter.
The price? And I kid you not - £171 - for a diesel shunter!!
I doubt many people can afford to shell out that kind of money these days.