Apple Green Engines

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Wandering1500
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Apple Green Engines

Post by Wandering1500 » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:23 pm

Does anyone else think the models on Apple Green engines are completely not worth the price? 415 quid for what appears to be a converted Hornby B12 into a Claud is not on :?

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/applegreen/handbuilt.html
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Wandering1500
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Post by Wandering1500 » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:30 pm

In fact, had a look through the site, and they're all of quite shoddy quality actually :shock:

Bit of a rip-off!

David
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Bullhead
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Post by Bullhead » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:22 pm

Wandering1500 wrote:They're all of quite shoddy quality.
I agree. That BR standard, for example -
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- looks as though it uses an old Hornby 0-6-0 rigid chassis with coarse-scale wheels (flangeless, in the centre) and worm drive clearly visible. The valve gear and connecting rods look very crude too (possibly from a Wrenn 2-6-4T?). Yours for £435!

£435 would buy you a DJH standard 4MT Mogul kit, good-quality motor & gearbox, and finescale wheels to replace the Romfords which come with the kit - and there would still be change to put towards the cost of building and painting it.

I can't imagine Apple Green selling many models at those prices. It's a pity, too, as I am sure there is a market for them if the quality and price are correctly aligned.
Last edited by Bullhead on Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
So - did anyone dare tell Stephenson, "It's not Rocket science"?

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richard
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Post by richard » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:43 pm

I occasionally receive emails from Apple Green - I'll see if I can get him to respond.

There's a long running argument over how much modellers should complain and criticise. I think the N Gauge community's current experience with Dapol shows that a good ear and honest communication from the seller, combined with constructive reasoned/balanced criticism from the modellers is beneficial for all.


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keithp
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applegreen

Post by keithp » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:36 pm

I respect the right of people to criticise but none of our locos uses ready to run parts from other models other than gears and Romford or Markits wheels.
Concerning DJH kits , they are good models but getting them to run properly or go round corners is another thing, let any of you experts try the B16/2 and see how you get on.
I shall post some pictures shortly of our recent builds for your education and will wait with interest to see what you have actually managed to build from your armchairs, Jamie, AG Engines.

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Bullhead
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Re: applegreen

Post by Bullhead » Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:24 am

keithp wrote:I respect the right of people to criticise but none of our locos uses ready to run parts from other models other than gears and Romford or Markits wheels.
Are you saying, then, that apart from the wheels and motor/gears, the rest of that 4MT Mogul is entirely scratchbuilt? Not a donor part anywhere? All the more disappointing, then, that it's stuck on a chassis which looks for all the world like a Hornby 1970s throwback (think train set Jinty) - no brakes or sanding gear, worm drive visible beneath the boiler, and connecting/coupling rods which look like they're fabricated from tinplate. Even if they aren't.

The paintjob looks OK, mind.
keithp wrote:I shall post some pictures shortly of our recent builds for your education.
Always keen to learn :D - possibly even to buy :D, depending on the price/quality coefficient.
keithp wrote:I will wait with interest to see what you have actually managed to build from your armchairs.
That's not really the point, is it? I'm not offering them for sale at four hundred quid a pop! However, I do have DJH 4MT and 3MT Moguls which I built 10 years or so ago; I will post pictures when I get a chance - probably at the weekend. And there's already a picture of the J77 which I also built in a separate thread on this site. I admit that I wasn't, and still am not, wholly satisfied with the appearance of any of them. That's why I now commission other people to build engines for me, when I can afford it.

I can understand your aggrieved tone, though. You were enterprising enough to spot a market and try to satisfy it, doubtless investing your own time and money in doing so. I didn't, and haven't. But the whole purpose of a business - any business - is getting customers (including me, potentially) and then keeping them. There are undoubtedly customers-in-waiting on this site. Reading some of the postings here, if you were to offer a relatively easily-built, inside cylinder, parallel boiler locomotive (J21? J27? J36? J11?) with a decent level of crisp, scale detail (including the hitherto barren area below the running plate) and paired with a good quality mechanism, I'd have thought you could expect to sell a respectable number. Even at £400.
So - did anyone dare tell Stephenson, "It's not Rocket science"?

keithp
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apple green

Post by keithp » Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:55 am

You obviously have an axe to grind so I`ll let you get on with it.
Lets see some of the models you built with your own hands and then we can stand back and be amazed.

keithp
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Claud D16

Post by keithp » Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:57 am

BTW we can supply the Claud tender top moulding for £10 plus postage.

keithp
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applegreen

Post by keithp » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:54 pm

What about you blundering 1500? where are your locos?

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Bullhead
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Post by Bullhead » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:56 pm

keithp wrote:Lets see some of the models you built with your own hands and then we can stand back and be amazed.
As I said, I had coincidentally posted a shot of a J77 I built some years ago in this thread, and specifically commented on its imperfections. The buffers look as though someone's dropped an anvil on them, the lamp brackets look a bit uneven, and goodness only knows why the safety valve cover appears to be nodding at the chimney :shock: . To save you the trouble of clicking the viewtopic.php?t=176 link, here's the picture again:
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However, as I said earlier in this thread I will try to find pictures of a couple of locomotives, some coaching stock, and buildings which I have built from kits and/or scratch, and post them here - probably at the weekend (unless the topic's locked by then), if I have time. Feel free to tear into them - but remember, I'm not the one offering anything for sale.

I don't have an axe to grind, other than as a consumer wanting the best value I can get for my hard-earned Sterling, whether that's at Asda or Apple Green. My purely personal opinion is that £435 for a handbuilt model of the quality illustrated doesn't represent good value.
So - did anyone dare tell Stephenson, "It's not Rocket science"?

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Bullhead
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Re: applegreen

Post by Bullhead » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:57 pm

keithp wrote:What about you blundering 1500? where are your locos?
That's what I like. A nice objective discussion between adult enthusiasts. :roll:
So - did anyone dare tell Stephenson, "It's not Rocket science"?

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Rlangham
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Post by Rlangham » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:32 pm

For the price you could get a kit version built and painted for you. The Ivatt R1 looks quite nice though, no comment about the others

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Wandering1500
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Re: applegreen

Post by Wandering1500 » Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:50 pm

keithp wrote:What about you blundering 1500? where are your locos?
Not an attitude of someone I expected to be more proffesional, but thats life... :) ...Unfortunately your 'abuse checker' doesn't seem to be working....i'm afraid its Wandering 1500, as per the railtour ;)

Seeing as you insisted.....my recently completed pair. Superdetailing of a hornby B12 and lima 31. Not the best pics ever....but i've not got the best digital camera ever ;) ( See the bottom of the post for the pictures ) Also remember the fact nowhere have I said i'm intent on loco modelling from kits or scratch. I respect those who can ( Bullhead, the tank looks amazing, I spooted few of the 'flaws' until you listed them! ), but those who charge extortionate prices for 'cheap tat' I cannot.

As Bullhead as said, i'm fully happy to have my opinion changed, but for 400 pounds a pop, for a Standard 4 which is made from an Airfix kit and a Hornby 1970s chassis ( my friend had the unfortunate pleasure of purchasing one ), and also considering the same amount of money would pay for a DJH kit and MORE......400 pounds IS very overpriced.
There are undoubtedly customers-in-waiting on this site. Reading some of the postings here, if you were to offer a relatively easily-built, inside cylinder, parallel boiler locomotive (J21? J27? J36? J11?) with a decent level of crisp, scale detail (including the hitherto barren area below the running plate) and paired with a good quality mechanism, I'd have thought you could expect to sell a respectable number. Even at £400.
Fully agreed. I must admit, initially hearing off a member of my local MRS that 'a RTR Claude was available' had me racing for the site, but with the initial comments and viewing of a freinds AGE model, and of course the not-to-flattering pictures on the site ( which show the models as, to me, 1970s RTR standard ) quickly put me off. Of course i'd be interested in purchasing if the price was lowered or modelling improved, but currently, i'll steer clear.

David
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Bullhead
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Re: apple green

Post by Bullhead » Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:56 pm

keithp wrote:Lets see some of the models you built with your own hands.
A South Eastern Finecast J39, redundant since Bachmann's offering, and a Parkside Dundas (I think) Palvan:

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The row of terraced houses (scratchbuilt) in the J39 shot is not in its final resting place (I have done very little scenic work on the layout so far). The retaining wall is scratchbuilt too, if covering plywood with DAS clay and scribing it can be called scratchbuilding.

A scratchbuilt signal box, based on Alnmouth and Usworth. The scenic work around the base is far from complete:

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So - did anyone dare tell Stephenson, "It's not Rocket science"?

keithp
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apple green

Post by keithp » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:17 pm

If its super detailed Blundering I suggest you try specsavers next time and why has it got a Volvo bumper on the front

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