Atlantic's works: Portable layout update

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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

I suppose I should say that I had no great objection to the Finecast cab roof as a part, even if it isn't quite as nicely detailed as the Hornby moulding. I was largely influenced by the fact that I thought my chances of a neat final result were slightly higher if I left the existing cab roof in place to maintain the alignment of parts. Even though I do have to extend and re-detail the rear edge of it I reckon I've avoided having to carry out some potential risky and extensive cutting and re-aligning/rejoining along the front edge of the cab roof, including the top edges of the spectacles.
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Atso »

Looking good and another excellent conversion to add to your collection. I am looking forward to seeing if you decide to build another Atlantic using a modified B1 chassis (hint, hint 8) ) as per a previous post on another forum.

I'm still pottering away with my modelling but I've now thrown myself into finally building my Hornsey based layout and I'm waiting for a Worsley Works V1 etched kit to arrive (my first etched kit although I've scratch built in brass before).

Anyway I'm eagerly awaiting (as always) for the next update!
Steve
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Hi Steve, I think any moves towards another Atlantic by that route will depend upon the Availability of a suitably cheap or "otherwise useless" B1 chassis and preferably some A4 wheels of the split chassis type too.

Here's how 10000 looked at the end of this afternoon. I'd layered up and smoothed down the cab roof extension, layered up but not yet smoothed the firebox extension, removed the old nameplates, trimmed off the old rear end of the running plate and after some thought had further prepared the cabsides ready for reassembly of the rear end. Again they are just standing in place in this picture. I'd also put some bracing inside the firebox and the wheel valances to counter a tendancy of these to distort which was evident even in the "raw" A4 moulding - and it wouldn't have made the rear end reassembly any easier!
STA74409s.jpg
I've gone further this evening, since the photo, bonding the cabsides in place with epoxy, reattaching the drag beam and inserting a running plate extension below the cabsides, and extending the cab floor.

It was only last Tuesday evening that a friend of mine said to me "I don't see how your going to do it........"
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Tom F »

She's really looking the business Atlantic3279

Stunning! Keep up the good work! :D
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Atso »

I'd like to echo Tom's comments, this really is looking good.

Re: the Atlantic, what about a Hornby B17 chassis and tender drive?
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Thanks for the positive comments again.

B17 to C1??? A few years ago I thought of Hornby Margate 3-pole tender drive as acceptable, but I wouldn't put a lot of effort into a new model based upon that drive system now! I haven't tried or knowingly seen the Chinese 5-pole tender drives in action, but even if they are silky smooth at half walking pace they still have the curse of traction tyres. The B17 coupled wheels may be the right sort of size (maybe even the balance weights are the right style - can't really remember) but on my two Margate B17s the wheel treads are very broad and the flange sizes are mixed: Too big on the leading and trailing pair and mini-flanges on the centre pair, which may even be a shade smaller in diameter over the treads. Then there's the heavy stamped metal valve gear and the wrong kind of cylinders in the wrong place. Many of the same factors that also eventually swayed me away from the B17 as a basis for the B2. For anybody seeking a "finescale" finished model I feel it could be a can of worms.......
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

By the way, yes, the cab side is drooping rearwards slightly in the previous picture but is upright now that I've bonded it in. Also, the roof isn't wavy as it may appear to be in that same picture. This shot should show that I've taken pains to file and rub it down smooth and flat at the rear ready for re-detailing, but I've left the raised front ventilator section unharmed, hence the misleading side-view.
STA74404 roof.jpg
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Firebox and running plate extension joints now thoroughly rubbed down and main raised details re-applied to cab roof extension. Bolt head representation will probably be by means of PVA dots after the first smooth coat of black paint, when I can see where I'm putting them. I'd planned to get the top layer of almost everything on the roof in black plastic, overcoming Slater's failure to offer 10thou Plastikard in black by arranging the under-layers of the roof in suitable thickness to allow me to drop-in a piece of 20thou to form the only very slightly raised lifting panel in the rear of the roof. This failed because of three things, one being that the thickness of Hornby roof that I'd measured didn't agree with what I got by laminating up to a supposedly matching thickness, the second being that the underside of the moulded roof tapers upwards towards the rear so my inner base layer finished up sticking up at the rear, thirdly I couldn't find a former to exactly match the roof curvature - so the heat formed plastic panels I made weren't quite the right natural curvature and the only way I could get them to assume an acceptable curve was to laminate them up in "whole roof width" layers. I thus finished up with a basic roof that was proud of the desired level & higher still at the rear, needing filing down to get it level, and the only way to add the panel was as a separate thin overlay. I did also consider very thin brass with embossed "bolt heads".
STA74416s.jpg
Last edited by Atlantic 3279 on Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Tom F »

My word she is looking suberb!

I never realised the W1 had such a long cab. What was the reason for this, sorry if that sounds like a silly question :oops:

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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by mick b »

Hi
May I suggest Archer transfers for the rivets . They are excellent you can get them from them direct from USA or from Historex.
I presume the camera is causing the very egg shape to the roof and tender profiles? How are you doing the boiler spacer so that there is no mark joins showing once painted. I have tried in the past and cant get rid of the marks.

nice job

Mick
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Hi Tom: Bear in mind that 10000 as modelled was a rebuild of a loco that had never been terribly successful and had cost a considerable amount of money for ever increasing amounts of maintenance and modification. The rebuild had to appear financially sound so even the existing frames were re-used, even though they had to have numerous holes plugged and welded-up in order to make them suitable. The long rear end had been required to accommodate the larger firebox of the original Yarrow boiler, hence the two trailing axles to carry the weight. These weren't strictly necessary with the new boiler, and despite its firebox being almost 15" longer than those of the A4s, consideration was given to using this type on the A4, still with just a single Cartazzi truck (moved slightly aft) and longer rear overhang. I assume that on 10000 it was cheaper to build a long cab than to modify the rear of the frames. It was recognised that it made the fireman's job more difficult, and the original tender was given a longer shovelling plate to try to reduce the gap between the coal supply and the firebox! The plus side of retention of the four wheeled rear end was that it apparently rode very well.

Hi Mick: The cab roof profile is okay seen end-on, although the Hornby moulding does have some awkward "coned" distortion in it as well as the tapered thickness that I mentioned. It doesn't show on normal inspection of the model, but you find it when you start trying to work on the thing! The top arcs to the tender still aren't quite right. The radius at the "eaves" isn't going to be right owing to re-use of the original copings, turned over. The heights to the tops of the arcs will have to be finalised when I come to making any adjustments to loco and tender ride height to match things up and set buffer heights. I think the tender rear needs flattening a bit more above the corridor connector, which may itself need a slight reduction in height. Fortunately, with loco and tender coupled the cab roof and the two coal plates all tend to look reasonably right anyway.
I've already had one long round of filing and rubbing down the firebox extension to get it to feel absolutely flush, carefully avoiding damage to the nice moulded details (though I ought to move some of the washout plugs and mudhole doors really). I know the joints will reappear as soon as I hit it with a coat of primer/paint, but it will just be a case of paint, allow to dry fully, rub down gently, paint, dry, rub down gently and so on until witness lines cease to appear.
I've got a note of those Archer transfers from a previous recommendation, and very nice they look too. Guaranteed regularity of size and shape I suppose. How quick are they to apply? PVA dotting, if I'm in the right lighting and the right mood to do the job can be very quick, give even/regular results, and is certainly cheap. The Archer transfers when I last looked struck me as rather expensive.
Last edited by Atlantic 3279 on Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by mistahjim »

Hi Atlantic, just want to again echo the previous comments, superb work you're doing. I was wondering if you were planning on doing a brief summary on parts/work done when you finish?
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Okay, so long as it is of interest I'll try to put up a brief summary of parts and method at some stage, although save for pieces of brass sheet, Plastikard and two sets of 12mm / 3ft 2in trailing wheels the parts so far are all seen in the earlier picture: Railroad A4 with W1 cabsides, rear frames and trailing bogie (plus unused roof) from South Eastern Finecast. Aside from some more brass sheet, Plastikard, wire and small washers, a few replacement handrail knobs etc I don't envisage using much else.
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Earlier today I masked up for a first coat of primer over the modified areas, from a Halfords aerosol of plastic primer. I folded the edges of the masking tape under, so that I could get these to lift a little to produce a soft (well, soft-ish) edge to the painted areas to ease further rubbing down / blending in. I masked off some of the firebox as I didn't want to clog the nice details with multiple layers of paint, nor risk paint reaction on areas that I haven't stripped off by previous rubbing down. As I imagined, some ridges have reappeared and the paint edges have created others. Rubbing down from here onwards will have to be done wet, with very fine wet & dry paper, on suitable little flat blocks. When all is eventually flat and smooth I hope to get away with just blowing-in the rear end with as closely matching a shade of blue as I can get, with no masking off of the nearby blue areas at all as I want the new paint edge to "fade out" as gradually as possible.
STA74418 masking1.jpg
STA74421 primer2.jpg
Last edited by Atlantic 3279 on Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by mick b »

Hi
Archers are waterslide a few seconds in water then apply as usual. I put them on before paint , you can probably put on after primer as well. They aint cheap but they are consistent in size and come in various spacing and various sizes on the sheets on offer. Well worth the money in my opinion
I have used Precision on my Hornby A4's its slightly darker but reasonable with a light bit of weathering to blend it in

Mick
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