Atlantic's works: Portable layout update

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Atlantic 3279
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

"Nice" weather today, you can tell it's my holidays, it stayed dry only for long enough for me to dash round with the mower this morning, so I've been messing around with fiddly bits of wire, brass strip, and a couple of crankpin washers. The externally visible results on the loco are very limited - just a couple of frame holes and my best interpretation from photos of the plumbing below the cab on the right hand side, & I'm still waiting for somebody knowledgable to tell me what this plumbing is. Hidden results however include the side stops I decided to fit on the rear bogie, a replacement lug to attach and centre the extended body on the chassis, an extra "goal posts" type spring for the rear bogie, and an unconventional but effective frame stay to reinforce the frames behind the cab steps.
STA74431 detailed frames from below rear.jpg
STA74432 detailed frames RHS.jpg
STA74433 bogie side stops.jpg
Attachments
STA74434 detailed frames on loco, right rear.jpg
Last edited by Atlantic 3279 on Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mick b
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by mick b »

Hi
Some of my SE Finecast version in post war livery. I am having problems with the rear truck derailing in reverse. I will add some weight and some kind of springing.


Image


Image

Image


Mick
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Hi Mick

That looks nicely built :) . Are those representations of the mudhole doors on the lower sides of the firebox part of the Finecast kit, or were they sourced elsewhere? I reckon I have to move at least one washout plug and one mudhole per side on my firebox if I want it to be strictly correct. I don't know whether to spend time fiddling about with little bits to make my own details or whether to buy them in instead - or maybe just leave alone and stop worrying! Gibsons list both items but I haven't seen examples to evaluate.
One reservation regarding your W1 would be the "parabolic" curve at the front of the lining. I believe the upper part of this ought to be a definite curve passing through the position of the second handrail pillar.
Regarding your derailing rear bogie: How far apart are your rear frames, what's your minimum track radius, and did you splay the rear of the frames as per the prototype (as I did) or just leave them straight and parallel as per the supplied Finecast parts? The green bible says the section of the frames carrying the Cartazzi truck was 6' 0" 1/2 apart, but there was a further spread behind there so that the rear ends carrying the cab steps were 6'10" apart. I've copied this and in OO this allows negotiation of curves slightly under 3' radius, although the springing on the rear bogie is helpful as it helps to encourage the front bogie to deflect rather more than the rear on the curves.
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by mick b »

Hi
You are right re the curve, its a Fox decal and a nightmare to put on it would not stretch any further and I can live with it. It is possible that the nose shape is slightly out? Another option would cheat and move the pillar back !!
Re the bogie its probably just too light , its just very thin whitemetal frames. I didnt know about the splayed frames. I am running on 36" radius curves.
Lastly the mudhole doors etc are etched brass as the Finecast effort was dire. I cant remember at the mo where I got them from they maybe part of a Mainly Trains etch. I know Finney sell the Washout plugs as a etch.

Mick
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Okay Mick, I'll have another look at the lists of the few items that Dave Cleal still does, and bear in mind Finney.

Today's efforts (when I've been allowed by circumstances) have consisted entirely of sticking on extra layers of plastic (especially to tender copings) and later filing these and other areas down, bending bits with pliers, and sticking a thin slice of 3/16" brass tube onto the altered rear of the tender, to reinstate and better represent the corridor's porthole window rim. It all helps towards the correct final appearance, especially the matching of loco and tender ride heights - I had become concerned and puzzled by the fact that the loco body still looked level, but was sitting higher than the front of the tender. Of course it was my fault, partly due to making too tall a new rear mounting lug, and partly due to the material left in place when I extended the cab floor :roll: . All sorted now :) .
STA74458 rear body mounting lug bent lower.jpg
STA74459 old dragbeam remnant filed out from under cab floor.jpg
STA74462 cab and rear running plate now lowered to better match tender.jpg
Last edited by Atlantic 3279 on Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

More progress this weekend. Too much to describe fully at this fairly late hour but the pictures will help. Also got most of the black areas sprayed since taking these pictures. Did another test run to and had to attend to shorting through the rear bogie spring due to contact on upper flanges of bogie wheels, plus derailments apparently caused by the rear bogie's side-stops catching on the raised rear edges of the main rear frame stay!
STA74465 primer rubbed down with wet 1200 grit, band added.jpg
STA74475 new rubbing plate on corr connector.jpg
STA74476 raised rear coalplate, detailed additions to copings, coal base refitted.jpg
Notice that the moulded coal still goes in below the level of the tender top with relatively little filing down and the redundant Ringfield motor block is still beneath - why did Hornby have to add so much false height to the tender to start with when they could have made it almost like this at the factory!
STA74480 pva bolt heads added, first blue undercoat applied.jpg
STA74482 patchy blue u-coat to cab, firebox and nameplate area, nose lowered approx 1mm, plus other details.jpg
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by rob »

Hello there 3279!
Thoroughly great stuff on the W1,as ever your ability to get plastic to do your bidding is a source of wonder! Really looking forward to seeing this develop and would be fascinated to see an Atlantic if you decide to have a go!
Cheers,
Rob
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Work has moved on although there's still plenty of detail to attend to. The blue paint is definintely still a second undercoat rather than a final finish. I haven't for instance done anything or made any definite decision regarding repositioning of washout plugs or mudholes on the firebox. Martin Finney says his etch of details only covers the round plugs, not the oval mudhole covers. At least the firebox sides, cab sides and cab roof are now at the "can't see the join" stage. Further bits to add in the cab, handrails and ejector pipe still to refit, further smoothing of tender copings required as paint has revealed surface defects, real coal to go on recycled (lowered) moulded coal - which fits far lower than it was on the original too-tall moulding yet still clears the unused motor block! Cylinder drains ought to be added, correct number needs to be applied, overall varnish to unify the finish, maybe a better front coupling too.
STA74494t.jpg
STA74497t.jpg
STA74498t.jpg
Last edited by Atlantic 3279 on Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

STA74500t.jpg
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

I did type up some explanatory text to go with these updated images, but then I lost it all due to my stupidity :x and I don't currently have time or inclination to type it again! If you want to know my method for the firebox details, let me know, and I'll have another typing session another time. Meanwhile, see what you can work out from the pictures, and spot any other developments since 6th August :wink: .
STA74527r washers.jpg
STA74528 redetailed firebox rhs.jpg
STA74532 redetailed firebox lhs.jpg
Last edited by Atlantic 3279 on Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

It was easier to patch-paint those belated alterations than I had feared it might be. Still needs cab window frames picked out in "teak", maybe glazing too, cab seats (made and ready for fitting), final titivation of paintwork and numbering of course.
STA74534 new firebox lhs details painted.jpg
STA74535 rhs almost done.jpg
STA74538 crew seats.jpg
These are just pieces of brass tube sawn and filed at an angle, soldered onto pieces of brass sheet bent to a right angle to provide a means of attachment to the cab sides.
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Besides the picking-out of detail with paint that I've already done within and around the cab, thre are still minor paint jobs to do, such as the rear porthole on the tender, more black on the smokebox handrails which have worn-back to blue already, general varnishing/weathering to unify the finish, and maybe darkening down of the heavy valve gear to make it less obvious (although I may use some remnants of SEF A2 valve gear to replace the most visibly "heavy" parts). Even so, the loco seemed complete enough for some better pictures to now be taken. I've remembered to include the comparison with an A4 which somebody asked for. I've even dragged the P1 and a 9F into one picture as somebody once asked me about, or commented upon, the relative sizes of these two locos.
I'm not sure that all these questions about size are healthy........

By the way, I know the short cylinder drains are wrong for the W1, but they avoid the fitting of un-supported long vulnerable pipes. The real thing had them secured to the main frame guard irons at the front end, and as Hornby cheat by modelling the irons swinging on the bogie it would require yet another alteration to the model to allow properly fitted long cylinder drains.
STA74546 W1 front with screw coupling, lamps,irons and new number.jpg
STA74547 W1 front left, name gone, short drains only, partly hidden chunky Railroad valve gear.jpg
STA74548 new firebox details painted, cab window rims picked out, glazed, numbered.jpg
STA74550 front without lamps on irons.jpg
STA74551 general view rhs.jpg
Last edited by Atlantic 3279 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, and maybe a W1???

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

STA74552 cab etc rhs with frame details.jpg
STA74555 detailed cab with fallplate and tender rear.jpg
STA74556 W1 loco and tender rear overviews.jpg
STA74554 W1 and Peregrine overviews.jpg
STA74545 4 loco sizes compared.jpg
I think the comparative views nicely confirm the extra length of the W1 firebox compared to the A4's, rather than it just being a matter of stretching the cab. Notice also that the P1 has a boiler barrel that is both longer and fatter than that of the 9F, which latter loco seems to be wrongly regarded by some as the ultimate British giant. Myth! The 9F was smaller than the Britannia too, which might itself be regarded as something of a second-rank pacific by LNER/LMS standards of the late 1930s/40s - BR even had to break the previous pattern of standardisation and make a special boiler for the 9F "half-way" between the 7P boiler and the 6P "Clan" boiler because the full size 7P boiler was never going to fit!
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, & NOW A FINISHED W1

Post by Atso »

Some exceptionally good modelling there as always! This is one locomotive that I have been interested in for awhile due to its origins and history of repairs and rebuilds.

I also find your picture comparing the W1 to an A4 very interesting as I'd never appreciated how much longer the W1 was. Also interesting that the P1 was longer than a 9F - such a shame the P1's didn't survive to nationalisation.
Steve
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Loco workbench - a B2 and a P1, & NOW A FINISHED W1

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Thanks Steve. I plan to put up another comparison photo later this evening, the stretched Hornby model versus an (admittedly none-too expertly built) Finecast W1 I've been able to borrow. I think this will show how much more nicely many of the features are represented by the Hornby stretch: I'm thinking of details such as the access doors in the streamlined casing above the "aerofoil splasher" which seem rather wavy-edged and lacking hinge /catch detail on the Finecast model, representation of the fine panel-lines and fixings in the casing, sharpness of shape of chimney, general shape around buffer level at the nose of the casing, shape of the rear of the main ventilator in the cab roof (mine may not extend back far enough but it IS at least raised in a curve in cross-section, whereas the finecast example is rather flat), firebox side fittings not in the right styles and places, and even the line of the "backbone" of the streamlined casing between the cab and the dome cover. The Hornby model is dead "straight backed" as it should be here, the Finecast model I've borrowed, and another I've seen by a well known builder, are un-realistically hump-backed in this area. Mick B's example, seen near the top of the page, is the only Finecast W1 I've yet seen on which this basic shape issue seems to have been addressed and some of the details have been improved, in fact his is a VERY nice build compared to the others I've so far seen.

This is intended as a counter-point to the usual comment that confronts me in connection with careful modification of RTR models, which is something like "wouldn't it be easier (????) to just build a kit instead?" Just???

I don't see in this case, or in several others, how a kit build is any "easier", how it comes anywhere near (in the case of many kits) to improving on the final result, and it certainly aint cheaper! I've not even had to do a full paint job in this case, nor on several of my other RTR conversions :D .
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