Atlantic's works: Portable layout update

[Atlantic 3279]

Thanks Andrew, I hope mine look as good as those when finished. Mechanical operation is the plan, forget any ideas of interlocking. In mind at the moment, I have a rod or dowel under the baseboard, with a multi-hole lever on the end under the signal, and an operating knob or little lever where the dowel protrudes through the side frame of the baseboard. I'll connect the lever to the signal using a detachable wire link. Some kind of stop may be required to prevent over-rotation of the operating knob/lever which might damage the signal.
An alternative idea is to put a cam on the end of the dowel below the signal, pushing against some sort of flat on the bottom of the detachable link. That would ensure that over-rotation of the dowel had no ill effect on the signal.
Much depends on how I eventually plug the removable signals into the surface of the board.

[Atlantic 3279]

I had a productive weekend, casting posts, and soldering a number of individual parts (100+ I reckon, including pins and washers) into sub-units, ready for final construction of the necessary signals. MSE instant ladders seem very flimsy. I'm wondering whether to bolster them by soldering 0.45 brass wire onto the two sides.

After some more sensible thought, and a consultation with a friend with more knowledge of signalling, I've also re-arranged the vertical drive rod and base lever on my test-piece first signal to eliminate un-necessary bends...

I forgot to show it last week, but I also had surprising success in drilling an additional operating hole in the right place into one of the Derek Mundy designed etched miniature somersault arms (which come with only the pivot hole) and combining that with an adapted smaller spectacle from the same etch to produce a working mock-up. It is still on a full size J-bracket. I'll have a go at making a smaller bracket to suit. I have that, and the lattice post, in mind for the down starter from the goods loop. I know that Wizard Models also sell the dedicated former D&S etch for the miniature signal parts, but that's a purchase I can avoid...

[jwealleans]

I'm wondering whether to bolster them by soldering 0.45 brass wire onto the two sides.

When I use them on wagons, I attach his square point rodding wire to beef up the uprights.

[Atlantic 3279]

Tried one with the 0.45mm wire soldered to the uprights. A bit fiddly to do, but a much stiffer ladder resulted, without looking unrealistically burly.

[Atlantic 3279]

I've been trying out a pre-Hartshorne MSE etch for some GNR ground signals too. The original instructions for 4mm scale weren't entirely specific about the way that certain things ought to be done, and the finest tubing I had to hand was 1/16" O/D, which I am sure is not ideal. The sketches in the instructions didn't exactly match the etched parts either, nor did the specified weighted lever look like the one I thought I could see in a photo that definitely showed a GN ground signal, but I tried to proceed as per the instructions anyway. The two parts that are supposed to slot snugly together to form the "cross" section vertical part of the bracket had slots that were etched out too wide, so I had to nip those up a bit with pliers so as to have something that would hold together in the right sort of shape and actually take some solder into its joints. It wasn't easy to solder the initially long piece of tube to the two featureless ends of the horizontal limbs of the bracket, and trying to then saw out the middle section of the tube naturally led to the upper piece breaking away from the bracket again, but I managed to re-align and re-solder it. After fitting the specified lever, I had even more doubts about it being the right one for the GNR, so I looked for more images and information, and ended up changing it to the one that the instructions said was only for LBSCR signals! I haven't yet permanently fitted the lamp head, so if the orientation of it is wrong at present I can put that right, once I've worked out what IS right...
Here's that first effort, with the vertical rod retained only by wire insulation at present:

One of the extra pieces of information I turned up when looking for confirmation of the lever type was a set of 2019 Andrew Hartshorne instructions for the 7mm scale (revised?) version of the kit. I wish I'd found those earlier, as they helped to give me some ideas for easier(?), better(?), more authentic(?) assembly of the 4mm scale parts, so I've now had a go with the second set of parts from the original kit. Instead of precariously soldering tube to the ends of the horizontal limbs of the bracket, which limbs still looked too long to me in my finished first assembly, I deliberately cut up the etch for this one in such a way as to initially get even longer horizontal pieces, but then I formed those into loops around a piece of 0.7mm wire so as to finish up with short horizontal limbs with looped ends that would hold the vertical operating rod. I used a touch of solder to complete the end loops without filling up the necessary rod holes. In this example I also soldered a hidden piece of tube into the baseplate, extending well below it, to guard and guide the operating rod where it will later pass through the baseboard. Another little piece of tube, left loose, above the top limb of the bracket, was required to support the lamp head.

My second method was a little less challenging and frustrating than the first attempt, but even so, the tiny parts didn't make it an easy or quick job, although I may have some further new ideas to make the task more tolerable, IF in due course I decide to make any more of these ground signals!

[Chas Levin]

Nice work Graeme and very informative write-up; I have some (somersault & ground) to do so I'm following this with interest...

[Atlantic 3279]

Thanks Chas. On any future ground signal I'm thinking of replacing the horizontal top limb of the bracket completely. I think it will be easier to separately wrap a reasonably long piece of thin strip around some 0.7mm wire to form a split-pin shape, trim this to a suitable length and then solder its two free ends to the top of the bracket's "post", where it really ought to be to support the lamp at the right height without the aid of spacers on the shaft. I think it will also be easier to just let the end of my "through the baseboard" tube project slightly above the base-plate of the ground signal to represent the bearing that should be on the end of the lower limb.

[Atlantic 3279]

Now that the forum has returned after yet another period of downtime this morning, I can add an update:

I'm not keen to repeat a time-consuming and tricky learning process such as the one that I have followed in order to gain enough knowledge of the prototypes and to build myself half a dozen signals, but as the images will show, the features that will show above the baseboard are now more or less complete. The models are not prefect, but they are better than not having any! I still have to return to the white paintwork on the previously painted posts, which has been caught by brushing in other colours in places, or worn-through / made permanently grubby by handling. I also need to study further the question of how much of the base of each posts ought to be black. But at least they are all capable of being pulled off to realistic angles, and they work either very freely or freely enough.

There are no backlight blinders on the signal with co-acting arms. There were not enough blinders to go around, and as the position of the signal and the box means that the imaginary signalman can only ever see the front of that signal, I decided that it would have to do without!

There is no lamp on the miniature signal yet. The only apparent photograph of the real one I've tried to copy seems to show no lamp, and one of my carefully pre-painted lamps pinged off into oblivion as I tried to coax it towards a signal held in fine tweezers...

I've learned one or two other things, some more obvious that others:

1. Home-cast resin "wooden" posts with "two lengths or wire" wire reinforcement. The wires have to be arranged to sit symmetrically distributed acroos the section of the post, i.e. equally near opposite sides and opposite corners, or a banana post may be produced.

2. MSE instant signal ladders. Having decided that the etches were too thin and flimsy as supplied, I soldered extra 0.45mm brass wire to the stiles of each ladder before making use of them. Having noted that some GN signals featured a ladder simply bent (or curved) over at the top and fixed to the post, with no landing, I decided to use that arrangement in most cases. The 23 foot ladders which are etched with stiles and rungs of the same thickness will still bend / curve quite neatly with the extra wire already soldered in place. When I tried the same with the 30 foot ladders, they went into a twist and rungs near the end started to snap! Their stiles, as supplied, are slightly thicker than those of the 23 foot ladders (still not stiff enough for my tastes without reinforcement though) and the rungs are half-etched (very weak). I spent ages getting rid of the twists and soldering in new wire rungs near the ends.

3. Spectacle glazing. I'd thought from the outset of glazing the spectacles with a film of PVA. My idea at that stage had been to use varnish tinted with paint to colour the glazing. My handy local fellow modeller with real life S & T experience very sensibly suggested trial of felt tipped pens to colour the glazing. Gentle use of fine point "Sharpie" permanent markers seems to have done a good job, very easily. Experimentation persuaded me to do both sides of the top spectacle red, to get a sufficiently dense colour, and to do the front of the lower spectacle blue and its rear face green to get the right sort of final colour and density. The green is not seen as green even on looking at the rear face of the spectacle.

Thanks to all for advice received.

Just some mounting sockets in the baseboard and operating linkages to sort out now. Ground signals at a later stage, as I may yet receive further information about those, and I'll need to buy around four more packets of the necessary parts.

[Chas Levin]

Really nice work, well worth that tricky learning process I hope?

Have to bookmark this for when I build some...

[Atlantic 3279]

Thanks Chas. They're all removably installed and remotely (manually) operable too now. I prepared notes and images covering that, ready for posting on here, a couple of days ago, and then before posting or saving the work I was distracted and inadvertently clicked on the wrong part of the screen, losing the prepared material. I hadn't the time and wasn't in the mood to try again...

[Chas Levin]

Noooooooooo! So sorry to hear that! I've done similar things and cursed the ephemeral nature of some aspects of digital data...

[Woodcock29]

I think we've all been there Graeme. Looking forward to catching up in May. I'll email you shortly with more info on my plans.
Andrew

[65447]

The LNER painting specifications state posts up to 2' 6" above ground to be black.

[Atlantic 3279]

Thanks Mike, observation of photographs had suggested that about 10mm was correct for 4mm scale. You’ve nicely confirmed that.

[Atlantic 3279]

Time for a quick catch up on progress so far. As this phase of construction is proving rather time-consuming, and my previous attempt to write-up illustrated notes on the installation of the signals proved to be a waste of time, we'll have to make do with just some images of the signals in place on the currently separated various scenic boards:

The next job I chose to tackle is the construction of the new curved boards that will provide the links to the two ends of the twelve road fiddle yard. I began by producing a paper template for the shapes of the board tops, working up from the 1/8th scale plan I had drawn about 5 years ago. In this image I had already cut the outline of the template and was adding centre-lines for the intended tracks. I was using the un-cut sheets of plywood as a flat surface on which to work, indoors, the paper fastened down, and that long strip of hardboard serving as a trammel so that I could strike accurate curves of minimum 36" radius.

With all of the track centres planned out, I was free to cut the plywood to the shapes of the board tops. I then checked that the four separate pieces genuinely produced a 180 degree turn when combined, 90 degrees each end of the fiddle yard.

After that, I constructed the framing for the boards, using straight-edge strips of plywood, on edge. I had to add more framing than I had originally hoped, in order to get properly flat board tops over the whole of the area that would carry track, as it had proved impossible to get truly flat plywood these days, even from my previously favourite independent local supplier. The track centres already marked on the paper template guided my choice of suitable positions for cross braces so as not to foul the point motors I plan to fit.

With the board structures complete I've started adding track, and have made the necessary cut-outs in the board tops to allow the point motors to clip directly onto the Peco points. When I actually started track laying, some of the curves I had previously plotted out on the template didn't appear to follow a sufficiently smooth, regular flow, even though they were all marked out to accurate radii. I've therefore made some adjustments, checking with the aid of a large 36" radius rigid template that I was not straying below that minimum radius. I've had to use a variety of different centre-points for the track curves, and various radii above 36" in places, in order to be able to align the curves with straight, parallel, evenly spaced tracks for most of the 6 foot long "straight" portion of the fiddle yard. This has taken up extra time, but one curved fan of tracks is now laid. Just the other end to do...