Atlantic's works: Portable layout update

[Atlantic 3279]

Application of lining to the V4 and the 174 series resumed yesterday, after Christmas was put back in its boxes. This afternoon, while waiting for paint and varnish to dry (yawn) and keen to avoid losing the will to live while looking out at the grim winter weather, I decided to follow up a thought I'd had regarding my still unfinished D7 master model. With a view to the possible provision of cast resin parts to others who might not feel inclined to build a drive unit, I had already given thought to RTR 4-4-0 locos with 26 or 27mm coupled wheels and a 34mm or at most 35mm coupled wheelbase, but all I could find that might be capable of chassis adaptation was the 1980s Hornby GWR County 4-4-0. Those of course are far from ideal, being not exactly cheap and plentiful these days if web prices are typical, and requiring either Hornby's own tender drive unit, now reviled by many, or a suitable alternative....such as????
Anyway, making the bold assumption that a modeller would be willing to sacrifice parts of the 4-4-0 loco chassis to sit under a D7, the next question had to be whether the Hornby tender drive mechanism would fit inside the relatively narrow, low 3000 gallon version of the MS&LR / GCR tender. The wheelbase of the unit that suited the County is almost certainly too long for reasonable use, just to make matters worse. What I think would be the best of the less than ideal options would be the Schools type tender drive. I didn't have one of those to try, but I did have a BR 9F tender drive whose wheelbase is at least closer to the required figure than the County version would appear to be. To my mild surprise, once the body and outer frame units are unclipped and the ballast blocks temporarily removed, it is clear that the basic Hornby mechanism can be accommodated without resort to the "mountain of coal" appearance, although the bunker and part of the tank top would have to be cut away and a permanent coal load installed to cover the motor. The ballast blocks with about 2mm trimmed from each side would also fit.
So it would seem to be a qualified "yes" to the possibility of an RTR drive unit for a D7 model, admittedly more straightforward if only the tender unit needs to be sourced and there is at least some ability and willingness on the builder's part to scratchbuild a basic, freewheeling four-coupled item to go under the loco.
Or can anybody suggest a more suitable RTR loco-drive?

[mick b]

No idea of the dimensions. The old Gem L1 chassis ?

[Atlantic 3279]

I don't know the dimensions either Mick , but I imagine it has a reasonably long wheelbase if GEM intended it for use under something as large as an R1. Are such chassis units still available anyway, and are they an RTR or at least an "any fool can build them successfully" option?

[Pebbles]

From the dim and distant past I'm pretty sure that the GEM chassis was a Generic replacement for the Hornby L1/2P chassis with a 40mm wheelbase.

[Atlantic 3279]

Thanks, that sounds fairly probable, in which case too long for a D7. I had all too briefly had some hope after noticing that the ex M&GN D52/53/54 classes had 8' 6" coupled wheelbase and 6' 6" wheels, my general ignorance of Derby matters making me think that the chassis of an accurate RTR LMS 2P 4-4-0 might provide a way forward. Of course it didn't take too long for me to find out that the LMS 2P was a dimensionally somewhat different kettle of fish!

[Danby Wiske]

If you want loco drive then the most recent Hornby County (Railroad range) might be the best bet. It uses the same chassis as the D49 - the non-driven axle has two different positions in the chassis block. Not sure how prototypically accurate the wheelbase is, but it's probably closer than anything else! I believe it's possible to replace the wheels in this chassis with A1/A3 ones, so anyone modelling a D7 in green could use the ready-lined ones.

Incidentally, the most recent Hornby 2P (also loco drive) has the correct 38mm spacing, unlike earlier incarnations. They're still using the old body moulding though, so the wheels and splashers don't quite line up...

[Atlantic 3279]

Interesting. So there really is (or has been) a loco-drive re-hash of the 4-4-0 County in the Railroad range? I don't follow GWR modelling matters, so I couldn't tell whether a single mention I'd seen of the alleged item in a web advert was evidence of an actual event, or of something still expected, or was perhaps just an error and should have referred to the Hawksworth 4-6-0.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

I suppose if you are really desperate, a 4-6-0, could be cut about, always fun cutting up a GWR loco.

manna

[kimballthurlow]

Hello Graeme and all,
I purchased a Hornby loco-driven model R3061 County of Bedford 4-4-0 specifically to build a Stirling GNR H5 2-4-0 from 1888 (using a J52 smoke box and running plate ......) someday/eventually/roundtuit/etc.......

Measurements below are +/- 0.5mm.
The driving wheels are 33.75mm between centres with a diameter of 26.5mm across the tyres.
Each wheel has 22 spokes.
The forward driver has a larger counterweight than the rear.
Forward driver is fitted with the rubber tyres.
The leading bogie has wheels 29.8mm between centres, diameter 12.8mm across the tyres.
The tender has wheel spacing of 29.7mm.
If you need more information (eg, motor measurements, clearances etc) I am happy to take the loco apart because I have to do this anyway.

If the dimensions are useful I think the model would make a good basis for a bash because the tender is set up with adequate pickups and permanent connection to the motor. And I guess room for a decoder etc. All made in China of course.

Kimball

[Atlantic 3279]

Thanks Kimball, that is very useful information and it sounds as if the loco drive unit is in principle suitable. Whether the rubber tyres and the size of the balance weights are ideal is another question, but with no obvious alternatives for those unable or unwilling to build a mechanism it boils down to a choice between a compromise and nothing! Certainly that tender wheelbase is much too long, so presumably the old tender-drive version would be the same.
Having now looked with more care and persistence, fuelled by the knowledge that these models actually exist, I see that there were versions with different county names, and that as is typical with batch production these days, none appear to remain available new, and the odd (good?) used one that I found listed was on offer from a known profiteer for a predictably high price. I wonder how many are simply being hoarded unused by collectors who think they've got an investment? I also wonder what is the bigger challenge: sourcing one of these models for the sake of only the major part of the chassis and then trying to sell off body, tender and maybe the bogie to recoup excess costs, or, making yourself have a go at building a four-coupled sub-chassis from suitable parts that are currently fairly readily available??

[Danby Wiske]

The D49 (R3062) seems to crop up for sale a bit more frequently, and a comparison of the service sheets reveals that it uses the same keeper plate as the County, so it should be possible just to move the wheels to the other position. Coupling rods would need to be sourced separately, of course. The D49 also comes with a GS tender, making it a bit more potentially useful to LNER modellers...

[mick b]

Interesting .
The Railroad version R3062 D49 ,also has a modern Can Motor chassi drive as well. I converted mine to a better looking Hunt using R2441 Scotsman Drivers ,which got rid of the Rubber Tyre on the front drivers as well. Some lead added to the body, and she pulls 5 Surburban Coaches without issue.

[Danby Wiske]

Thanks Mick - I knew someone had done the wheel replacement, but couldn't remember who!

[kimballthurlow]

Hello all,
I got my R3061 from a small retailer in the UK within the last year.
Sometimes the small retailers have stock which would normally clear from a large retailer some time earlier.

Regarding the tender I aim to use (for the H5) a Hornby B17 die-cast frame which I purchased from Peters Spares.
It seems to have appropriate springing and wheel-base suitable for that era, with maybe some filing of the frame sheets.
I am assuming the pick-ups and wiring from R3061 tender can be transferred to this new frame.

If anyone wants photos or measurements of either the inside of R3061 loco and/or the tender I am happy to oblige.

Kimball

[manna]

G'Day Gents

For small GN 2-4-0's and 4-4-0's, I used the County loco chassis combined with the 'Schools' tender.

manna