Atlantic's works: GNR ballast brake, or break.

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Woodcock29
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Re: Atlantic's works: A proper vintage carriage.

Post by Woodcock29 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:35 pm

Terrific work Graeme as usual!
Andrew

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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Atlantic's works: A proper vintage carriage.

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:20 pm

Thanks to all for positive comments so far.

All seats now fitted and an image of a Bostwick gate stuck in place on both faces of the kitchen wall, should anybody ever manage to look hard enough inside the assembled vehicle to see it.
STA71262s.jpg
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As far as I can tell at present the correct final colour for the seats may be reddish brown for the thirds (unless I've chosen the wrong style and they should instead be the oval-backed so-called Louis xxxteenth style seats with dark upholstery) and the for the firsts either a dark unspecified colour, possibly in leather, or another reddish brown fabric. Rather than leaving all in red primer I probably should apply some sort of additional paint to create a distinction between the colours of the two classes of seating, but with no certainty that any choice would be correct and with plenty to do today and tomorrow in order to be organised to take full advantage of important opportunities on Saturday there may be no more progress on the coach for a few days.
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Re: Atlantic's works: A proper vintage carriage.

Post by jwealleans » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:27 pm

By the time of the LNER they were using green leather in First Class dining (that’s in Harris, just don’t ask me which one).

I don’t know when that was adopted, though, or how likely upholstery might be to be replaced.

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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Atlantic's works: A proper vintage carriage.

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:15 pm

Not in the blue Harris it would seem, unless in a different place from the unspecified colour of leather I found in there.
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Re: Atlantic's works: A proper vintage carriage.

Post by JASd17 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:32 pm

I think green leather was in the first version of Harris, concerning the early LNER Restaurant Car Diagrams?

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Re: Atlantic's works: A proper vintage carriage.

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:14 pm

As it turned out, those interior bits and pieces weren't quite the last things I had time to do before the weekend. The (probably) superfluous toilet window is now eliminated (the right one I hope John...) and I've scribed some suggestions of folds into the sides of the plain moulded gangway connectors. Some lightly sprung rubbing plates will be added to the gangway connector mouldings so that they appear to be connected to those of any adjacent carriage when the vehicle is in use.
STA71267s.jpg
Over the weekend I had the great pleasure of meeting several fellow modellers at York show, including a certain outstanding Mr. Trice, who has 3D printed some late versions of the Doncaster 6 wheel carriage bogie sides and may in due course do a slightly earlier version too. I was amazed that even when using my natural myopia to the full, in good daylight, I could not resolve any of the printing striations in these pieces, and Mike thinks he can actually make them cleaner/sharper still at a second attempt! That I gather will be something to do with compensating for the way that the process in standard form adds a little material everywhere, beyond the specified dimension, effectively fattening up every little detail with an added skin of printed resin.
STA71269s.jpg
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My stand-by plan for the earliest version of the bogies had been (and may still be) to use (in adapted form perhaps) 247 Developments 11'6" LNWR bogies, which actually seem to be about 11'3" scale wheelbase and would, I believe, benefit from having the depth of the main solebar reduced and the tie rods raised a bit.
STA71272s.jpg
For another possible approach to portrayal of the earlier version of the bogies with shorter leaf springs, I do have (as part of an unbuilt set of GN 8' Fox bogies) some old D & S white metal axlebox and spring castings, whose springs are about the right length, but whose axlebox fronts are not of the earlier "lug each side" type so would perhaps need alteration - although axleboxes did of course get replaced over the years.
STA71280s.jpg
STA71281s.jpg
My "Plan A" as soon as Mike Trice offered to print some bogie sides had been to create some resin castings that would allow those sides, suitably strengthened, to form a true part of the structure of each bogie. Another, simpler option may in fact exist as I am also aware of a modeller who has arranged to have some etched, fold-up inner frames produced for such bogies. They look a lot simpler than the Bill Bedford (via Eileen's) variety, although some thought (not too challenging) will need to be given to the means of accommodating the separate 3D printed bolster end pieces which are designed to engage in rebates on the back of the bogie sides, partly where an etched inner side would be. I shall have to try not to upset the designer of the etches and discover whether he might be able and willing to supply me with a set on appropriate terms....
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Re: Atlantic's works: A proper vintage carriage.

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:21 pm

The MJT standard LNER vacuum sets that I fitted, for want of anything else and as a temporary measure, to the underside of my model may get replaced with something more appropriate a little sooner than I originally expected. A quick web search and then a visit to Dart Castings' stand at York yielded some etched v-hangers that are better in size and shape. Even if they are a little "thin" (so I may laminate two together for strength and appearance, especially those close to the edge of the coach) and even if they are nominally "GWR" (shudder) they are a welcome alternative to a possible attempt to make V-hangers by hand. Despite the packaging, and their location on the current Dart website, these are not part of the original MJT range, having been added to that range by Dart from the former Frogmore Confederacy range.
STA71275s.jpg
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STA71278s.jpg
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Re: Atlantic's works: A proper vintage carriage.

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:22 pm

While the 247 Developments whitemetal LNWR bogies may not be my final choice for my carriage, include no representation of brake gear, and (in my opinion) need a bit of adaptation in order to get closer to the appearance of the early versions of the Doncaster 6 wheeled bogie, I had everything to hand to enable me to attempt to put a bogie together including the adaptations that I envisaged, so last night I had a go.

I began by using a razor saw to separate the tie rods from the bottoms of the horn guides and to separate the tops of the bolster springs from the bottom edge of the solebar. I then filed material away from the lower edge of the solebar and the bottom of each horn guide. Care was required when filing around the representations of the spring hangers! This image shows untouched side at top, molested side below.
STA71284s.jpg
This image, inverted to maintain the same relationship of parts, shows the reverse side.
STA71285s.jpg

Side reassembled carefully with low-melt solder, shown below between original side at top and 3D printed later version of bogie side at bottom. The perspective emphasizes the relative shortness of the 247 side, although as I mentioned previously it is about 2mm shorter than true scale size in its wheelbase.
STA71286s.jpg
Two modified sides assembled into a bogie, using the bolster that 247 supply. I had to clear the bearing holes out quite a lot in the sides before the shouldered pin-point bearings would go in fully, then finding that a fair amount of filing of the bolster was required before the sides would fit close enough together to suit the lengths of the axles.
STA71290s.jpg
STA71291s.jpg
Under the carriage with the aid of some temporary additional support:
STA71288s.jpg
STA71289s.jpg
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Re: Atlantic's works: A proper vintage carriage.

Post by Manxman1831 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:20 pm

Those LNWR 6-wheel bogies that 247 Developments have in their stock are very useful items - whether used as is, or modified to suit. Pictures show the 11' 6" version as used under a Triang Caley coach.
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Brian

Anything weird or unusual will catch my interest, be it an express or locomotive

I'm also drawn to the commemorative, let's hope Bachmann will produce 6165 Valour.

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Re: Atlantic's works: A proper vintage carriage.

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:57 am

So I see. I put the second modified bogie together last night, breaking one side in the process after failing to notice, until I had made two good solid soldered joints, that it had moved out of position before I made the first joint! The breakage occurred in the process of undoing the joints. Profanity and repair ensued.
Simple enough in principle as these three piece bogies may be, it was very noticeable that the bolster for the second bogie did not need anything like the amount of filing that the first one had needed. This apparent lack of consistency of the whitemetal parts is not good news, given that the correct fit of the parts will in any case depend upon the length of the axles that you use, the depth of insertion of the bearings into the sides, the accuracy of positions of the original cast (but not clean) bearing holes in those sides, and any wandering of the drill used to clear out the holes. I didn't really think much to the assembly methods that I felt obliged to follow, either one of trying to hold all three bogie parts and all three wheel sets in position simultaneously whilst also checking for general straightness and squareness, then using my third and fourth free hands to solder the joints, or instead taking a gamble on soldering one side squarely to the bolster and hoping that bogie width, the intended on-centre-line position of the pre-formed pivot hole, and the lie of all of the axles would actually turn out to be right when the other side was made to fit. I just couldn't find any suitable flat surface on which I could brace the parts properly for "two hands only" assembly with decent access for the soldering iron too.....

Still, job done, so far.

I can now try some proper Doncaster pattern bogies for comparison.
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Re: Atlantic's works: A proper vintage carriage.

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:01 pm

On temporary blocks the body sits thus on the modified 247 bogies:
STA71292s.jpg
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Yesterday the postman delivered a little package from that excellent gentleman South of the Thames. It contained refined versions of the 3D printed bogies sides, some true GNR-pattern retractable carriage buffers (both one piece and two-piece versions for me to try out), and as a rather nice bonus some LNER bucket seats as used in 1930s open carriages. The bogie sides will appear in due course. The buffers, tiny and in grey resin include more detail than can be seen in my amateurish photographs, but you'll be able to see that the seats are rather nice:
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STA71298s.jpg
The idea is for me to have a go at quick and, it is hoped, fairly inexpensive duplication of these parts in resin.

This morning, the postman brought me another package of items to try, this time from a gentleman in Bedfordshire who seems to be largely building tramway locomotives lately. Doncaster 6 wheeled bogies mark 2 should be under way shortly....
STA71295s.jpg
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Re: Atlantic's works: A proper vintage carriage.

Post by JASd17 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:58 am

Oh for Bucket seats. Is that a Percy Grainger start?

I am listening to the Philip Glass' opera AKHNATEN as I write this, I feel Mr Trice should take over the LNER modelling world.

A modest ambition, given what he has done since the 1970s?

Great to see Dave and MJT in York.

John

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Re: Atlantic's works: A proper vintage carriage.

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:09 am

Percy Grainger?

Shall I have to make all further forum posts in song, in Lincolnshire dialect?
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Re: Atlantic's works: A proper vintage carriage.

Post by JASd17 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:18 am

Not sure how good Percy's Lincolnshire dialect was, he was Australian after all.

John

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Re: Atlantic's works: A proper vintage carriage.

Post by Dave » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:26 am

I see you have a set of Mikes modified mkII bucket seats, mine have little legs
which are quite delicate, I suggested to Mike he modify them, I will post some pics on my bit later.

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