diagram 86/7 LNER General/Milk van

[chaz harrison]

I wonder if anyone out there can help...

I recently bought a 7mm etched brass kit for the dia 86 van. Both the diagrams are reproduced in Michael Harris's excellent "LNER Standard Gresley Carriages." However there is no photo of the real thing. Does anyone know of a photograph of these vans? I would particularly like to see a van as running in BR days. Obviously I can build the model without a photo (it's a very good kit - D & S) but painting and lettering it is going to be easier and more accurate with some reference. The kit instructions include a photo, but the reproduction is poor and no numbering or insignia can be seen.
I have a copy of David Larkin's "BR General Parcels Rolling Stock" and G Gamble's "British Railway Non-passenger Rolling Stock" but unfortunately neither of these feature the 86/7 vans. The latter book does include a CCT(C) van which is quite similar but has detail differences, the chief being the ends, which have opening doors.

Chaz

[Bryan]

They wouldn't be in the NER Record books or any of Tatlows books by any chance would they? Or are they out of NER territory?

[jwealleans]

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic. ... an#p729669

Just past half way down the page, partial image only.

[chaz harrison]

Bryan,

Thanks for the thoughts. I don't have the NER record books so can't look in those. Can anyone else say whether these include the dia 86/7 vans?
The vans are not in Tatlow's original single volume "LNER Wagons". They were, after all Non-passenger coaching stock. I don't have the more recent 2 (?) volume work. They "sneaked" into Michael Harris's "LNER Standard Gresley Carriages", which doesn't include any CCTs, horse-boxes etc. (They would justify a book of their own?)

Jwealleans,

thanks for the link to the partial view.
Interesting difference between the van in the photo and the etches in my D & S kit. The kit has the small windows above the ventilator grills (toplights?) continuing right along the sides, rather than the larger vent, carried on right up to the cantrail as this photographed van has, to the right of the sliding door. I wonder if this is as built, or a modification? The diagrams in Michael Harris's "LNER Standard Gresley Carriages" show the windows right along the side, as the kit has them.
Unfortunately the photo shows the LH hand, which is either devoid of markings, or they are obscured by grime. Maybe all the lettering, number etc are on the RH end. Apart from anything else any inscriptions on the LH end would be covered if the door is slid open.

Incidentally the kit is the usual excellent D & S fit, although I am not sure yet how I will fix the aluminium roof. The 4W pigeon van (diag 120) which I built has a neat channel on the underside which retains a pair of nuts. The underside of the roof in the 86/7 kit is plain. I may glue a pair of nuts to the underside. If I glue the roof in place I will have to do this after the van is painted - much easier to glaze it after painting, and easier to glaze it from above (the kit includes 6 BA nuts and bolts to fix body to frames.

Chaz

[chaz harrison]

Van is now nearly finished, with just a few details to add so not long before it goes into the paint shop.
I have running numbers, tare weights and load but I would prefer not to guess as to the layout of the inscriptions. Anybody know how there were arranged by BR, or better still have a picture?

Chaz

[lnerjp]

Hi Chaz

I'm trying to work out which way the bottom door runner goes, is it with the dimples on the outside? Also how far do the handrails stick out? are they proud of the door.

Thanks in advance

J.P.Venus

[chaz harrison]

J P,

If you take a look at the prototype pic (there is a link in one of the postings above) you can just about make out the door runners. I assume that the "dimples" are actually the ends of brackets. So they need to be on the outside.
Unfortunately there is a pillar obscuring the handrail so we need some educated guesswork. I put a bend in the handrails to put them clear of the doors, set about level with the outside face.

incidentally I thought the white metal castings for the door blocks (on which the latches are mounted) are rather oversize. I think it would be a very tricky job to thin them down to a usuable thickness. I discarded them and replaced them with two short brass strips (cut form a narrow strip on the fret). These are the same thickness as the doors, so the latch plates sit flat.

I am attaching a couple of snaps.

I hope that they are helpful, let me know if you need any other help.

Chaz

[chaz harrison]

J P,

How are you getting on with that diag 86 van of yours?

Chaz

[lnerjp]

hi Chaz

Just tried to take a photo but batteries flat on camera, got the body all soldered together and square this afternoon and have just soldered the W-irons and steps onto the solebars.

Took the plunge and bought a Isinglass drawing and you where right about the Handrails they do have a bend in them facing away from the doors. Also states that their is a picture of one of these vans at the head of a train on page 24 of Bradford Barton "North Eastern Steam Loco Album" but it's not a book I have.

J.P. Venus

[chaz harrison]

I have a copy of Bradford Barton "North Eastern Steam Loco Album". It would have taken quite a long time for me to trawl through all my picture albums to find this! There may well be a better photo somewhere but it's likely to be an incidental inclusion (just like this one). I suspect there weren't any photographers "wasting" film on grubby parcels vans when there was all that lovely steam about.

This does at least confirm the shape of the rainstrips and the handrail on the end. The picture is a double page spread, but being a three-quarter view of the whole train the van is seen very obliquely. Still, it's better than nothing. Any other references to photos?

Chaz

[lnerjp]

Hi Chaz

Sorry no more references thought I'd done well to find that one.

Progress so far.

[chaz harrison]

Good progress JP, have you decided how you will fix the roof? I'm inclined to glue it after painting and glazing. Incidentally, to avoid the see-through effect on those vent' grills I will carry the glazing down behind them, but spray it with a matte grime colour.

Chaz

[lnerjp]

I'll glue the roof on like yourself after glazing, I will also probably glue on a layer of tissue papper before adding the vents to ressemble canvas.

I'm a bit stuck on the compensated axle, I've constructed the rocking cradle but am a bit unsure as to how parts 27 go. I would appreciate any advice you can offer please.

J.P. Venus

[chaz harrison]

Hello JP,

what might be confusing you is that there are some parts which are obviously for axle mounts but which are not reqd, being "shoot ups" from 4mm. Just follow the sketch on the sheet labelled "Modified instruction notes for 7mm scale..." and discard the unwanted parts.

I am not sure why he did part 41, I would have thought a plain hole in 27 would do. However it is easy enough to fit 41 to 27. Once you have the white metal springs in place there is not much movement, But enough I think.

Once it is all set up I bend a small piece of scrap fret into a Z and solder this to the floor and the cradle pivot pin. This retains the pin with no risk of soldering up the cradle solid. Snap below.
Let me know if you need anything else.

Chaz

[lnerjp]

Thanks for the advice Chaz, the additional fret had fallen down the back of my workbench and I was attempting to assemble the 4mm cradle.

J.P.