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LNER Gresley Teaks

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:04 pm
by karlrestall
I am currently thinking of buying building and painting a Gresley teak coach from cooper craft. My problem is the painting of the teak effect. Does any one have any techniques for painting a convincible teak effect?


Karl Restall

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:34 am
by Bullhead
I see that Fox have released a set of transfers to correct the notorious Hornby Gresley teak grain printing error.

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:30 am
by LNERandBR
You can get the correct colour form Railmatch the problem I came across was doing the lineing so I painted on cream first and then wiped the teak colour off to reveal it. A bit unorthodox but it works. If you make the teak lighter in areas you can get lighter and darker patches but as for grain I can't think of anyway to make it.

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:56 am
by 61650GTFC
I recently painted a small 4 wheel carriage in O gauge. To get a wood effect I first paint the coach overall in Phoenix LNER Teak. Then while the paint was still wet i paint on yellow and a darker brown with the smallest paint brush i could find. I then blend the colours running the brush in the direction of the grain. It looked a total mess till it was properly dry but i feel it gave a reasonable effect from normal viewing distances. This method gave a dark aged wood affect. I feel. It would be worth experimenting on a spare piece of plastic as it took a lot of courage as the risk of making a mess was high.

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:45 pm
by 50A
Hi Karl.
This method was suggested to me several years ago, I have built and painted 3 suburban coaches using this method, and in my opinion look ok.
Firstly you paint the completed body with either plain white or yellow - the colour does not need to be precise. Let the paint dry fully.
Secondly you apply the teak paint using a decent brush and paint the finish on using a thinish coat - the idea is that you intentionally leave the brush marks in and some of the undercoat shows through. Don't forget to brush in the direction of the grain for the panels.
I can recommend trying it out on some scrap material first. I used Humbrol enamel paints and I am unsure how acrylics would fair - the tend to dry too quickly.
Hope this helps.

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:43 pm
by TimMeese
Yes - though my methods are similar to some of those posted already. The paints I use are these:

1) Railmatch teak. To my eye this is completely wrong for the body (compared with stock I see at the SVR), though is perhaps (?) ok for the plain painted post-war livery, applied to some coaches, perhaps thompson stock before the ersatz livery, anybody (?)). Anyway, to my eye it looks perfect for the solebars (SVR again). The latest hornby colour looks a bit dark there, but I could be wrong.
2) Phoenix teak
3) Phoenix or raimatch brakedust.
4) Satin varnish (humbrol or probably any other make)
5) Gloss poly (humbrol, or probably any other make)
6) Phoenix primrose lining.

I blend streaks of 2 - 5 together on the coach while still wet, working quickly. I also add bits of dark colour around doors etc, as dirt. This gives a very 'locked in' look to the grime, which is my strong impression (from photos) of how teak coaches weathered. (Did they just varnish over the dirt, anyone?)

Lining is quite easy on some models (e.g. the old style hornby) because of the plastic relief - I found that with care, you can get a very nice straight line painted freehand.

Finally, paint the roof very matt grey, and dust over using your favourite dirt colour with your airbrush.

I painted a train of old-style hornby Gresleys (plus flush glazing) this way several years ago, and was pleased with the results. They certainly hold their own next to the recent hornby offerings (errors in length etc aside) and have a very similar overall look and colour.

Final notes:
1) If I was doing this with a kit I would undercoat first.
2) I don't know whether surburban Gresley stock was lined. Anyone?
3) I see that Phoenix have recently introduced a couple of new teak paints: an undercoat and a topcoat, presumably with the idea of achieving a grained effect, but I have no experience with it yet.
4) I also tried doing this with acrylics. Very bad idea. It just looked like a two year old had been at it.

Hope there is something useful there


Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:44 pm
by rob
How deep is a hole! There are a lot of different methods out there and the actual coach colour would have varied a lot,plus occasional stripping back and bleaching with oxalic acid before revarnishing.Note also that teak varies widely in grain,which tends to be strong with some very dark veins,and overall panel colour-I reckon MRJ types would be justified in varying each panels undercoat colour a bit! In sunlight teak itself will fade back to a more uniform goldish effect-alot of the darkening is in the varnish and atmospheric dirt.I feel that we all make our coaches too light in colour,the few colour shots I've seen whether contemporary or in LNER days show a much deeper orange-gold tint than models which tend to be more of a tan brown.
In the past the old type of decorators scumble used by painters to simulate woodgrain was used and the techniques could be applied to modern enamels. PSL once published a"Modellers Guide To The LNER",ISBN 0-85059-831-1 which has a chapter on coach liveries and a very useful guide to reproducing teak finishes.Try to get this S\H or via a library its very good on this aspect.
Gloy once upon a time did a teak which had some metallic effect in it and though too light for anything but a new coach could look very well virtually dry brushed over a brown basecoat-my Kirks,badly in need of some tlc have this finish and its Ok believe it or not.In fact I'm going to experiment with some gold,copper humbrol blended into brown on my next few coaches.
Do give the new Coopercraft Kirks a go-the kits and instructions are very much improved,and you have a really wide range which I think are good value for money and fun to build.

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:57 pm
by TimMeese
Rob - so were they always stripped back before revarnishing?

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:37 pm
by rob
Hello Tim-According to Campling in Historic Carriage Drawings (And I paraphrase) at overhaul wood which was 'too discoloured' was stripped back and bleached and the whole process gone through again.According to Adairs book this, including drying time,took about 20 days and 18 stages!I would guess for a cash strapped, even if PR aware concern,this means timber in good condition was probably not stripped fully back as a matter of course.Ex NER coaches which had been painted Lake were simply painted Teak Brown after grouping, I imagine because its almost impossible to get the undercoat out of the grain on wood thats been painted but it must have been quite a contrast with varnished stock! I wonder why they were never given the elaborate simulated teak finish some of the later all steel stock had,which included shaded imitation beading and casing? Possibly they were considered too elderly! I also believe that after a certain time the bleaching process was no longer able to restore the timber so coaches were then painted plain brown -I presume this would apply more to the later years of the company.

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:49 pm
by TimMeese
Hi Rob - thanks for that, pretty much as I suspected. From the photos I've seen the simulated (ersatz) teak finish was truly astonishing (and I grin to think that this is what we are actually doing to our model Gresleys). I live in hope that one day Bachamann might do a proper job on its Thomspson stock in this and other livery.