The Flying Scotsman

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CVR1865
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The Flying Scotsman

Post by CVR1865 » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:07 pm

this is a question about the train not the locomotive.

Is anyone aware of the formation of the flying scotsman train as it ran from London to Edinburgh in non stop and stopping days. I think that there was a full brake behind the loco at the down end and also used the triplet restaurant car, whether it was the nonstop version or not i don't know. any help anyone can give would be gratefully recieved.

many thanks
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x568wcn
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Post by x568wcn » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:09 pm

The last 2 months of Model rail have had articles on it (The Flying Scotsman & The Flying Scotsman Pt2)

I'm after a triplet set, but as these were the Restaurant cars, where does the Buffet car fit in to the equasion?

As there's one in the NRM and Hornby do one?
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x568wcn
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Post by x568wcn » Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:34 pm

Reet, now at home withg the 2 mags already open on the (messy) desk, it quotes a down express (always confused there!), starting at the Northern End, in the Mid 1930s;

Aberdeen BTK 3rd Brake
Aberdeen CK 1st/3rd
Aberdeen TK 3rd
Edinburgh TK 3rd
Edinburgh TK 3rd
Edinburgh TK 3rd Toilet
Edinburgh RTS 1st/3rd Restaurant
Edinburgh FK 1st
Edinburgh TK 3rd
Edinburgh BG Bogie Van

hope this helps a bit, as I don't really undestand all the secret codes!
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richard
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Post by richard » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:32 pm

I've been reading up on the codes because I'm looking at buying half a rake of Mk.1s in the next few weeks (and then mix them up with some blood&custard Gresleys when Dapol releases them). So I think the codes are:

BTK = Brake Third Composite
CK = Corridor Composite
TK = Third Corridor
RTS = Restaurant
FK = First Corridor
BG = Full Brake ("Bogie Guard"?)

Richard
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CVR1865
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Post by CVR1865 » Thu Apr 13, 2006 10:49 am

thanks for all the info. i think its a good excuse to but one of the kits for the restaurant triplet. How about a pre accelerated service? are there any differences in the formation?

thanks again
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Post by karlrestall » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:25 pm

richard wrote: BTK = Brake Third Composite
CK = Corridor Composite
TK = Third Corridor
RTS = Restaurant
FK = First Corridor
BG = Full Brake ("Bogie Guard"?)
Richard BTK is Brake Third Corridor and RTS stands for Restaurant Triplet Set which was a 1st class dining car a 3rd class Dining car and a kitchen car between the two. The RTS was a triple articulated set which meant that the Kitchen and 1st class shared a bogie and the kitchen and 3rd shared a bogie. Also BG means brake gangwayed ie a full brake coach with a corridor down one side, as this was generally at the front of the train this allowed the train crews to swap over by passing through the corridor tender and the gangwayed brake coach.

Regards

Karl Restall

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richard
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Post by richard » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:43 pm

Yes the crib notes I have here mix the Composite/Corridor for the "K"!


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x568wcn
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Post by x568wcn » Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:49 pm

In the NRM Warehouse, on one side wall, there's a cabinet of Locos and coaches/wagons.

On Saturday I took about 7 photos and stiched them.

Image
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Post by CVR1865 » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:24 pm

so was the non stop flying scotsman nonstop to EDinburgh or did it call at a few stations on the way?
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Post by x568wcn » Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:22 pm

The 10am departure was established in 1862, and by the Grouping in 1923, it was being provided with carriges from the East Coast joint stock (ECJS) fleet.
The newly-formed LNER, competing as always with the West Coast route to Scotland, now in the hands of the LMS, took early steps to modernise the train, and an all-new formation was introduced in 1924, and given the name 'Flying Scotsman'. In 1950 it became 'The Flying Scotsman' which at last distinguished it from the Locomotive.

Entering Traffic on 24th February 1932, number 1472 was un named and the first engine to carry the Apple Green Livery.
It went in for repairs in February 1924 and came out renumbered 4472 and named Flying Scotsman.
She was displayed at the Empire exhibition at Wembley. Also there was 4073 Caerphilly Castle, and although not visual competitor for 4472, there was the small matter of a notice that read 'Britains Most Powerful Passenger Locomotive'
In the Summer of 1927 with improvements to their fuel ecconomy the Pacifics were able to begin working non-stop between Kings Cross and Newcastle.
In the Following Spring, the service was extended to Edinburgh, a distance of 392.7 miles, the worlds longest non-stop run, a trip only one class of loco was capable of making. The honour of hauling the inaugural train - the 10.00am from Kings Cross naturally went to Scotsman, and the honour goes to Alne just above here in York where the crew changed over!

So sort of yes it was non stop!
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Post by CVR1865 » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:11 am

how many Scotsman's where there per day?
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richard
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Post by richard » Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:37 pm

Always one. Different similar trains would then have different names.

There was definitely one/day when I took it in its Class 91 days!


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Post by karlrestall » Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:42 pm

richard wrote:Always one. Different similar trains would then have different names.

There was definitely one/day when I took it in its Class 91 days!


Richard
But in the summer there was 'The Junior Scotsman' leaving 5 minutes after 'The Flying Scotsman' Im not sure of the Up services but wasn't there also a service also named 'The Flying Scotsman' leaving Edinburgh at the same time as the London service?

Regards

Karl
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richard
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Post by richard » Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:58 pm

Sorry yes, one service in each direction. I'm not sure of the times - they may have been at the same time, passing in the middle.


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x568wcn
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Post by x568wcn » Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:26 pm

Yes, just the one, as it was the 10:00 from each end (in the morning)
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