Modelling the Whitby, Redcar and Middlesbrough Union Railway

This forum is for the discussion of railway modelling of the LNER and its constituent companies.

Moderators: 52D, Tom F, Rlangham, Atlantic 3279, Blink Bonny, Saint Johnstoun, richard

Post Reply
Greedy Boards
GNSR D40 4-4-0
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: York

Modelling the Whitby, Redcar and Middlesbrough Union Railway

Post by Greedy Boards »

Hi All

With all the interest in the Darlington-Saltburn Branch in the Photograph Section, wondered if some knowledgable folk could help and let me know how passenger & freight traffic operated on both WR&MUR, and the Cleveland Railway, between Middlesbrough & Whitby?

Paul Hughes' excellent Carlin Hall OO gauge layout appeared in British Railway Modelling in February 2008, and has spurred me to think about my own in roughly the same area, BUT I would like to include an ironstone mine branch with some of the Bachmann & Hornby buildings that have appeared in recent years.

My dilemma is principally twofold:

Firstly, how was both passenger & freight traffic organised during the age of steam? Being born in 1961, my knowledge is limited to those books that I can lay my hands on, and they tend to be image-intensive, rather than outline how the traffic was organised and controlled. Essentially, did the iron ore traffic leave the mines and go down the Saltburn-Darlington Branch via North Skelton Junction and Saltburn West Junction to the iron & steel plants of Teesside? And did the Middlesbrough-Whitby passenger service tend to operate via Priestcroft & Kiltonthorpe Junctions on the more southernly route via Nunthorpe?

Secondly, which locomotives used the lines on a regular basis, such that I can replicate with R-T-R models? Courtesy of Bachmann, I have several J39s, a V1/V3, some J72s, and more recently a BR Class 4MT 2-6-4T, with a Hornby Thompson L1 2-6-4T due any week now. But freight locomotives seem under-represented, and the Bachmann WD 2-8-0 seems to have been side-lined for the moment.

Any info/advice greatly appreciated, but please don't refer me to kit-building, as it is one resource that I do not posess due to work & family commitments.

Many thanks in anticipation

Greedy Boards
North Eastern Matters
majormagna
H&BR Q10 0-8-0
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:41 pm
Location: North Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Modelling the Whitby, Redcar and Middlesbrough Union Railway

Post by majormagna »

Locomotives that frequented the area included Thompson L1's and B1's. A8's, V1/3's and both tank and tender variants of BR 4MT. I do recall seeing a WD 2-8-0 or 2-10-0 around Skelton, they may have traveled further south.

About you other questions, I'm not sure; I don't know too much about lines north of Whitby.
Moors Bound
Kenny
GNR J52 0-6-0T
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:46 pm

Re: Modelling the Whitby, Redcar and Middlesbrough Union Railway

Post by Kenny »

I lived at North Skelton until summer 1960 and as far as I can recall there were two ironstone trains daily (Monday to Friday) from the mine there, one in the morning and one mid-afternoon. I think there was only one train on Saturdays and none on Sundays. The most common locos used were class J26 and J27 0-6-0s but ex LMS Ivatt 2-6-0s (43000s) also appeared. There was also a midday pick up goods usually worked by a Q6 0-8-0 or a WD 2-8-0, which used to deliver pit props among other things I believe. The ironstone trains used to work to Grangetown via Redcar except during the summer of 1961 when the bridge at Saltburn was being replaced. The summer of 1959 was dry and two or three trains a day of tank wagons transported water from the mine to Dorman Long's steelworks again via Redcar using Q6s and WDs. Diesels were later used on ironstone trains and I've seen a film clip of D5166 working the last ironstone train from North Skelton.

Most of the trains to Skinningrove steel works were also worked by classes WD, Q6, J26, J27 and Ivatt 2-6-0s. Nearly all of these were routed via Redcar but two trains of empties per day returned to Newport via Boosbeck and Hutton Gate during the 1950s. Of course diesels started to appear from around 1961 and classes 25,27,37 and the occasional 40 were used.

Passenger trains between Middlesbrough, Whitby and Scarborough were routed via Boosbeck and Hutton Gate except for two or three per day during the summer months only which worked via Redcar. RTR loco classes that could be used on these trains during the 1950s are B1, Fairburn 2-6-4T, BR 2-6-4T (80000), V1/V3, Ivatt 2-6-0 (43000) and L1. It is possible that BR 2-6-2s (82000) also appeared.
James Brodie
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:13 pm
Location: North Yorkshire Moors.

Re: Modelling the Whitby, Redcar and Middlesbrough Union Railway

Post by James Brodie »

Brand new class 2 2-6-2ts were used on running in on Saltburn Darlington in the early 50s along with Fairburn Stanier and Fowler 2-6-4ts. A5s A8s and L1s were the mainstay. The Vs were mainly on Middlesbrough Newcastle. Newport to Skinny was Q5s Q6s J26s J27s J39s WD 2-8-0s and BR standard 9Fs Ivatt 4F 2-6-0 BR standard 3 2-6-0 (I think) 77010 numbers. Whitby had standard 4 2-6-4Ts. We could work to Skinny via saltburn and sometimes home via Boosebeck and Guisborough, Nunethorpe East, Nunthorpe Station, Ormesby, Pennymans, North Ormesby, Guisbrough Jct then onto the goods lines to Newport. The new table at Skinny could turn a 9F other engines we just came home tank first. The pick ups to Whitby some via eaglescliffe, Picton, Sexhow, Battersby then through to Whitby-J26 J27-Q6.
Mbro Whitby Scarborough was also worked with G5s and Sentinel railcars. York men worked pick ups with B1s via Malton Pickering Grosmont Whitby. Our K1s mainly worked York or Trimdon.
Hope this is of some help. Coaches on the Whitby trains were normally three on in winter and five in summer. BT-CL-BT or BT-T CL-T-BT a mix of NER-Elliptical roof or Clerestory. LNER-Gresley and Thompson.
Dtn Sbn eight on usually four twin sets Gresley flush sided stock Mbro Ncas eight Gresley corridor coaches.
Excursion trains were worked by all manner of foriegn locos mainly from York or Leeds Jubilees Crabs V2s etc. The pick up via the north Yorkshire branch changed over with Whitby men wherever they met but the pick up via Great Ayton went all the way to Whitby and back.
Hope this is of some help. Jim Brodie.
Bryan
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 2224
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: York

Re: Modelling the Whitby, Redcar and Middlesbrough Union Railway

Post by Bryan »

Kenny wrote: The summer of 1959 was dry and two or three trains a day of tank wagons transported water from the mine to Dorman Long's steelworks again via Redcar using Q6s and WDs.
Interesting.
Was this a common sort of working around the NE or just for this particular works?

I assume the water from the mine was water that would have been drained off otherwise from the workings.
Greedy Boards
GNSR D40 4-4-0
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: York

Re: Modelling the Whitby, Redcar and Middlesbrough Union Railway

Post by Greedy Boards »

Hi Guys

many thanks for all the fantastic info, its much appreciated.

I guess that I'm going to have to be slightly creative on my layout, given the split between passenger & mineral freight in the area. My thoughts are tending towards a location akin to Brotton, so that I can combine both forms of traffic, and would like to include an ironstone mine similar to Lumpsey, so that it can sit in the crook of a junction, and mineral freight and passenger traffic can go their respective ways.

One question does however stick in my mind, and that is due to a photograph of a J26 approaching Lingdale Junction from Kilton Mine in 1959. Trying to relate the image with the location on the limited Guisborough Area rail network that I have, could I ask how the locomotive was 'turned', such that it could haul its iron ore wagons to the iron & steel works on Teesside?

I plan to model from the late 1930s up to the mid-1950s, so that I can cover both LNER & BR Early eras. Have therefore already renumbered a Bachmann LNER J39 as 1448, a V1 as 484, and I already have a J72 581, albeit in LNER green livery, when I guess that it should be in LNER black, but could someone please confirm? I think that the J39 may well get overworked until Bachmann or Hornby produce either a Q6 or a J26/J27, but here's hoping!

The BR Early period does not appear to be so much of an issue, apart that is from a funding perspective, but am sure that it will keep my attention & resources for some time yet.


Regards

Greedy Boards
North Eastern Matters
Kenny
GNR J52 0-6-0T
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:46 pm

Re: Modelling the Whitby, Redcar and Middlesbrough Union Railway

Post by Kenny »

Hello Greedy Boards,

You could base your model on South Skelton mine which was located about half a mile west of Boosbeck and alongside the Middlesbrough to Whitby line. This mine closed in 1954-my Grandfather was the last Under-Manager there.
The J26 you mentioned at Kiltonthorpe junction would have run round its train at Brotton prior to continuing to Teesside.

Bryan - I seem to remember a small reservoir at North Skelton mine. I don't know the source of the water though as I was only six years old at the time.

Ken
James Brodie
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:13 pm
Location: North Yorkshire Moors.

Re: Modelling the Whitby, Redcar and Middlesbrough Union Railway

Post by James Brodie »

Trains working back from the mines-Skn etc would just run back tank first-(tender first)-it didn't bother us which way the engines faced maybe as a guide the local traffic turns engines would have the engine facing the adverse weather so umpteen J26s one day would point one way then when the weather changed point the other way. We did have side and back sheets we would put up made from old sacks. The minerals (Q6s) we just worked them as we found them irrespective of which way they faced. We could run just as fast in either direction. WDs at Skn we did tend to turn but if we had to go back to Upleatham for a further load then it was tank first runing.
Jim brodie.
MarkT79
NER Y7 0-4-0T
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:29 pm

Re: Modelling the Whitby, Redcar and Middlesbrough Union Railway

Post by MarkT79 »

Some useful information here, I'd been searching to find out if 9F's worked regularly to Skinningrove, I had it in mind that the turntable was lengthened to accommodate them, With the turntable enlarged I've also read that Pacifics worked light to Skinningrove to turn after bringing in excursions to Saltburn or Redcar races, Unlikely an A4 made it that far but who knows? I did have a link to a picture with what looks like an A3 or V2 been turned, The reason for my interest is I've been modelling the route for a driving simulator

I have an album of pictures on FlickR - https://www.flickr.com/photos/54270350@ ... 0900927534

Also a page on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/northyorkscoas ... ks/?ref=hl
MarkT79
NER Y7 0-4-0T
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:29 pm

Re: Modelling the Whitby, Redcar and Middlesbrough Union Railway

Post by MarkT79 »

MarkT79
NER Y7 0-4-0T
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:29 pm

Re: Modelling the Whitby, Redcar and Middlesbrough Union Railway

Post by MarkT79 »

A short video of the zig zag line to Loftus mine made in train simulator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qx72Ud_Bjg
Post Reply