Modelling a place on the LNER

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jdtoronto
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Post by jdtoronto » Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:36 pm

I have taken a close look at Alnmouth. According to the current maps the branchline to Alnwick is now dismantled, but on multimap.com it is easy to see that path of the line which seems to branch maybe only 750 metres north of Alnmouth station.

From the aerial pohotographs the station car park would be on the east of the tracks. Where was the branch line platform and the engine shed? I would assume it was to the west, but of course the modern aerial photography shows little. There appears to be a cleared area with a whoite or light coloured building (house maybe) among some trees. But I will certianly pursue this lcoation, it could be just right. A bit of undulating contryside it would appear with the cuttings on the old line to Alnwick.

I seem to recall stopping to look at the railway bridge in Berwick upon Tweed, I used to love driving around on weekends, and would drive as far as York just for the pleasure of the little roads along the coast. The bridge would make a great model. I will go in search of books covering the area and search for that video you mentioned also.

Fron the modern maps it would seem that the branch south of Berwick went to Mindrum Station and Kelso. I haven't followed the other branches yet.

Thanks for the suggestions, I will keep searching!

John

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Post by jdtoronto » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:09 pm

Colombo wrote:John,

Its usual to specify a time period for your layout and run whatever could be seen at that time. For example, my own is from 1957 to 1963 which allows me to run blood and custard as well as maroon carriages, pre-grouping and standard locos, and both the black and early green diesels. Also steam was still mostly in charge on the ECML at the beginning of this period. There are definitely "no blue diesels!", the battle cry at our club.
Thanks Colombo,

Thats what I was really getting at.

So for 1949 to 1952 (the period my loco suits being in Express Blue) I could certainly use Teaks, with blood and custard form about 1950/51 as far as I can tell. But maroon would not be appropriate.

I also understand that in that part of the LNER that steam was still king. Of course here in North America I am accustomed to people saying that by then most steam had gone!

So now, what other loco's would be appropriate for the period 1949 - 1952?

What oco's with what coaches would have been used for these branchline operations?

I don't want to be a slavish rivet counter, but I would like to be able to design annd build a layout from research. Ultimately Iwould even like to go to full signalling, but I figure I better get the basis down first!

John

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Colombo
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Post by Colombo » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:11 pm

Wow, we are on a second page!

Right John, now for the wonders of modern science:

Alnmouth was a sub shed of Tweedmouth 52D. Go to http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~luigi ... coshed.htm
for all the British Railways loco allocations at that time.

The Tweedmouth allocation was V2s, B1s, K3s, D20s, J39s, J77s and a solitary V1 and a G5.

52D TWEEDMOUTH

60884 60932 61019 61025 61241 61322 61901 61917 61930 61962
61985 62349 62351 62352 62355 62358 62360 62371 62375 62380
62383 62387 62396 64711 64813 64815 64843 64844 64854 64868
64917 64924 64925 65082 65727 67303 67673 68284 68421 68437

You can at least get an A3 and a V2, but it looks like you will have to build a few locos yourself. All those D20s were for the local passeger services including to Alnwick.

The Standard locos had not yet appeared.

Alnwick was an interesting terminus station with an overall roof. There is a preservation Society aiming to reopen part of the Aln Valley branch.

Go www.avrs.co.uk/rest/branch%20history. There are some photos of Alnwick station.

Colombo
Last edited by Colombo on Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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richard
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Post by richard » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:28 pm

Yes it is good to see a second page!

Of those locos, in N:

V2 available RTR from Farish.

J39 available as RTR from Union Mills (still in stock as of 2 weeks ago)

D20 has been produced RTR from Union Mills but I hear the scale was a bit off and he won't be doing it again. Or if he does then it will be new tooling/etc.

B1 available as a whitemetal kit from Langley Models (requires a Farish Black 5 chassis). I have one on the bench that will be fitted to a dead Black5 chassis and use a Union Mills motorised tender. That's the hope...

I think Foxhunter are rumoured to have a K3 kit under development. Their kits are meant to be very good but I haven't tried one yet.

J77 and V1 would have to be scratch built I think.


Richard
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Colombo
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Post by Colombo » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:34 pm

My second link did not work:

Try googling "Aln Valley Railway".

Colombo

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Post by Colombo » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:55 pm

John,

There is a picture of Alnmouth station in the AVRS gallery. It shows the station, platforms and the engine shed. There is also some very complicated track.

A scissors crossover, a double slip and a three way turnout with a reverse turnout interlaced. That should be a challenge in N gauge! :twisted:

Colombo

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richard
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Post by richard » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:58 pm

Aln Valley Railway: Ah that makes sense. I was thinking that Almouth was a tiny little station when I was there back in 1998...

It could be a good tourist operation. I can just see the promotion now: Olton Hall dressed as "Hogwarts Castle" taking people to Alnwick Castle (used for many of the films).


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jdtoronto
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Post by jdtoronto » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:15 pm

This is wonderful stuff! Thanks guys.

I have the links now and will do some more research later in the day (night?).

By the way, I just won 6 Farish Teaks on ebay. Had to pay £56 for them. I hope they are in first class nick! And my Mallard arrived today, I swear the thing is new. I paid £55 for it from a fellow in California, beats the £71 that was the best I found form dealers in the UK.

As for the trackwork? Well isn't that why I studied engineering?

And loco's? Well, I think I will have to beef up the workshop here before I scratch build a loco. At the moment I prevail on the various contractors and jobbing shops I use to do things for me - laser cutting, machining, mould making and the like. But we are planning some renovations in teh basement to give us space for a compact little workshop.

What coaches would have been used for the local passenger service? Are the teaks, or some blooad and custards okay for that?

John

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Colombo
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Post by Colombo » Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:06 am

I look forwad to seeing some photos of the layout construction as it proceeds, particularly the track.

As for the actual Alnmouth station site plan. I should drop a line to the NRM at York and see if they can run off a copy of the NE drawings for the location. These will give you the actual track and signalling.

Also try the NER Association for photographs from the Ken Hoole collection. The NERA also publish A4 booklets of Locomotive Shed Diagrams. Volume 1 covers the NER Southern Division, so you don't want that one.

BR Steam Motive Power Depots NER by Paul Bodger has a section on Tweedmouth, but not Alnmouth. The locomotive allocation is there for 1950 and includes three G5s and a Y7 68089. There were 8 WDs allocated as well.

As for carriages, the branch train at that time would have been non corridor stock in teak or painted brown to match. They may have used NER stock or Gresleys.

Colombo

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Post by jdtoronto » Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:03 am

Colombo:

Thanks for the shed info, I seem to be rapidly amassing a lot of good research here. The house is probably going to have to expand to accomodate the books though!

Now, having the shed allocations:
The Tweedmouth allocation was V2s, B1s, K3s, D20s, J39s, J77s and a solitary V1 and a G5.

52D TWEEDMOUTH

60884 60932 61019 61025 61241 61322 61901 61917 61930 61962
61985 62349 62351 62352 62355 62358 62360 62371 62375 62380
62383 62387 62396 64711 64813 64815 64843 64844 64854 64868
64917 64924 64925 65082 65727 67303 67673 68284 68421 68437
How do I find out what they actually are? Is there a book or a web-site that allows me to find out what the specific numbers were assigned to?

John

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Post by jdtoronto » Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:11 am

Colombo wrote:I look forwad to seeing some photos of the layout construction as it proceeds, particularly the track.
I will be asking for comments on a layout plan sooner than you will see track!
As for the actual Alnmouth station site plan. I should drop a line to the NRM at York and see if they can run off a copy of the NE drawings for the location. These will give you the actual track and signalling.
Thank you, I shall do that. I have found some Ordnance Survey maps of the area for the right period and they should help somewhat also. Especially in topographic terms.
Also try the NER Association for photographs from the Ken Hoole collection. The NERA also publish A4 booklets of Locomotive Shed Diagrams. Volume 1 covers the NER Southern Division, so you don't want that one.
I have had a look at their website and I will get in touch with them I have also found some Hoole books on EBAY and I will bid on those to add to the collection.
BR Steam Motive Power Depots NER by Paul Bodger has a section on Tweedmouth, but not Alnmouth. The locomotive allocation is there for 1950 and includes three G5s and a Y7 68089. There were 8 WDs allocated as well.

As for carriages, the branch train at that time would have been non corridor stock in teak or painted brown to match. They may have used NER stock or Gresleys.
So if I go searching for these carriages on EBAY, what will they be called?

The Teaks I know, I gather blood & custard would be okay as well, but the others I have no knowledge of. Of course, two weeks ago I knew nothing about ANY of this!

John

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Colombo
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Post by Colombo » Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:50 am

John,

I can't help you with branch trains non-corridor stock.

I have seen a photo of a J39 heading the branch train, so you can use the Union Mills one. You don't have to worry too much about the lack of a D20 for now.

Colombo

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Colombo
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Post by Colombo » Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:06 am

John,

Every train spotter had a copy of the Ian Allan British Railway Locomotives Combined Volume. This was published twice per year, with all the withdrawals and new builds updated with each edition. There are also photographs to assist with recognition. You can either buy a second hand copy of this pocket sized booklet which will be grubby with many of the numbers underlined, or you can buy a reprint.

Don't buy the Ian Allan Locoshed book, it does not give the classes of the locomotives, just the allocations.

For information about pregrouping locomotives, have a look for: Locomotives at the Grouping No.2 London and North Eastern Railway by H C Casserley and S W Johnson. Published by Ian Allan.

Colombo

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Post by LNERandBR » Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:09 am

There are vairious double track sections of the ECML. I have Microsoft Train Simulator and Mid East UK is a route which includes the ECML from Kings X to Retford. Set in the 70's. There is a station on the ECML which is double track but I cannot remember the name of it.
By Stephen

Mad about the LNER, BR Eastern region in the 50's, Rail Blue Diesels and Sectorisation era.

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Colombo
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Post by Colombo » Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:48 pm

John,

I have today found two pictures of Alnmouth Loco shed on the NER Association stand at the Warley MRC exhibition at the NEC.

The wooden ramp beside the entrance to the shed is a coaling stage. Loaded wagons were pushed up the ramp by an engine. To avoid the engine going up the ramp, a string off four wagon chassios was provided to reach up to the wagons.

Colombo

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