I'm getting gradually closer to the point where I will be able to start construction of a large layout and am considering using Phos-B rather than N/S rail(SMP).Has anyone on the forum used it for a full layout rather than sidings or checkrails etc?
Darryl Hayman at SMP advised me that its really a matter of personal choice ,but that PB will give a weathered effect with time,otherwise performance is pretty similar.I have read of two layouts where it is used and the builders were both very pleased with it,but it is not in widespread use.I imagine there are some "urban myths" involved but here is a summary of what I have heard;
I'm told advantages are-better conductivity over distance,better adhesion of loco drivers, that over time it will self -weather to a rusty shade,that it is much easier to see when it needs cleaning and that it needs less frequent cleaning(even I don't believe that one!) whereas the disadvantages are that the rail tops even when clean will always look too yellow,that it oxidises faster and that it is softer and frogs will wear out faster with use,whilst conductivity and adhesion are pretty much the same.
Can anyone else advise?I am tempted to try if it is much of a muchness but I would think twice if I heard,no,I've used it ,and it was a disaster for the following reasons.Thanks if anyone can advise.
Phosphor-Bronze versus Nickle Silver
Moderators: 52D, Tom F, Rlangham, Atlantic 3279, Blink Bonny, Saint Johnstoun, richard
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richard
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"less frequent cleaning" but "oxidises quicker"?
At least one of those is wrong!
Some of the cleaning solutions available deal with oxidisation, as well as the grease and dust that can be acquired.
The oxide layer is probably going to be less conductive as well.
Sorry don't have a definite answer - never used phosphor bronze!
Richard
At least one of those is wrong!
Some of the cleaning solutions available deal with oxidisation, as well as the grease and dust that can be acquired.
The oxide layer is probably going to be less conductive as well.
Sorry don't have a definite answer - never used phosphor bronze!
Richard
Richard Marsden
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Colombo
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Rob,
If you are building your own points, then you have the option of us PB throughout, or just for the check rails, as we should not really clean them, but it is difficult to avoid doing it. The bronze colour looks a bit like rust. You could also use it for little used sidings that have got rusty.
Colombo
If you are building your own points, then you have the option of us PB throughout, or just for the check rails, as we should not really clean them, but it is difficult to avoid doing it. The bronze colour looks a bit like rust. You could also use it for little used sidings that have got rusty.
Colombo
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rob
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Richard and Colombo-
Thank you both-and to add to the confusion Richard the"stays cleaner" source also claimed that the oxidisation on N/S was less visible?!-I think I understand that though,I have often had stalling on seemingly clean N/S which when wiped with a cloth leaves a dirty black deposit,explaining the problem.Furthermore,he claimed that you will be able to run well on slightly oxidised PB whereas N/S gives trouble as soon as it is even slightly affected.Incidentally a good tip I got there was keep humidity low(A dehumidifier if you can)and N/S performs better-it seems to work-and avoid abrasive cleaning(it encourages oxidisation)which is not always easy in practice,but again seems a valid point. I have had experience of both materials when used for guitar strings and certainly PB strings get very discoloured in the non-fingered areas but N/S stays reasonably clean throughout-its not really a useful comparison though as conductivity is my main concern.
I did manage to chase down one of the layout articles-its in BRM for Nov 2005-a very nice Scalefour engine shed called Maindee East,spoiled only by an infestation of GWR locos! The modelling is first rate and the owner states "the track itself is phosphor-bronze as I found it stays cleaner under exhibition conditions than anything else".This is encouraging,but an exhibition should involve high humidity,temprature variations,frequent train movements and probably more dust than a home layout which may see less traffic but a lot more cumulative oxidisation with gradual dust accumulation!I am afraid I may lay PB and discover N/S is better for less intensive use!
I am indeed planning to use PCB points and SMP throughout Colombo -I find it gives better running especially over points,and a infinitely greater choice of track formations, plus(I think you're of this opinion too)it is more your own work,for better or worse,at the end of the day!In my case I fear worse but I will have had my fun at anyrate!If you hear anything more on this topic I would appreciate any information you think useful.
Thank you both-and to add to the confusion Richard the"stays cleaner" source also claimed that the oxidisation on N/S was less visible?!-I think I understand that though,I have often had stalling on seemingly clean N/S which when wiped with a cloth leaves a dirty black deposit,explaining the problem.Furthermore,he claimed that you will be able to run well on slightly oxidised PB whereas N/S gives trouble as soon as it is even slightly affected.Incidentally a good tip I got there was keep humidity low(A dehumidifier if you can)and N/S performs better-it seems to work-and avoid abrasive cleaning(it encourages oxidisation)which is not always easy in practice,but again seems a valid point. I have had experience of both materials when used for guitar strings and certainly PB strings get very discoloured in the non-fingered areas but N/S stays reasonably clean throughout-its not really a useful comparison though as conductivity is my main concern.
I did manage to chase down one of the layout articles-its in BRM for Nov 2005-a very nice Scalefour engine shed called Maindee East,spoiled only by an infestation of GWR locos! The modelling is first rate and the owner states "the track itself is phosphor-bronze as I found it stays cleaner under exhibition conditions than anything else".This is encouraging,but an exhibition should involve high humidity,temprature variations,frequent train movements and probably more dust than a home layout which may see less traffic but a lot more cumulative oxidisation with gradual dust accumulation!I am afraid I may lay PB and discover N/S is better for less intensive use!
I am indeed planning to use PCB points and SMP throughout Colombo -I find it gives better running especially over points,and a infinitely greater choice of track formations, plus(I think you're of this opinion too)it is more your own work,for better or worse,at the end of the day!In my case I fear worse but I will have had my fun at anyrate!If you hear anything more on this topic I would appreciate any information you think useful.