Make do and Mend - now Cattle and Containers

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drmditch
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
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Make do and Mend - now Cattle and Containers

Post by drmditch » Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:53 pm

I dislike throwing anything away, especially if it is something I have spent time on.

Many years ago I built a DJH Q7. I used a Comet two stage gear box and a Mashima motor, and built a brass tender subframe. It runs really well, and even manages the 18” radius curve on my colliery line.

I had corrected some of the obvious problems with the kit, spectacle plate inset into the cab, brake hangers etc, but there was always something about it that looked wrong .

Later I built a Dave Alexander Q6 with the same configuration (which is now my best running engine) and this reveals what is wrong with the Q7.

The boiler diameter as supplied by DJH was 22mm. (This was quite an old kit and I do not know if they have changed it since.) This would represent 5’6” diameter, which is the correct boiler outside diameter, but makes no allowance for the cladding. A trip to the NYMR and the real Q6 shows that this is about 2 inches thick. (I didn’t measure it accurately because the boiler was quite hot at the time !). This means (I think) that the correct model diameter should be 23.5mm, and this is the boiler diameter of my Q6.

Now I knew that Dave Alexander was planning a Q7 (which is now available), but my engine ran well and I didn’t want to discard it completely.

I assemble my white metal kits with cycroanylate. (I panic when soldering white metal). So immersing it in paint stripper reduced it to its component parts. I then made :-

1.5mm plastic sleeve for the boiler.
New smokebox front
New smokebox saddle (this was quite difficult)
New cab floor,seats,sandboxes etc
Front sandboxes
New boiler bands from tape (except where the smokebox joins the boiler where it is plastic strip.
Post_Loco_01 - small.JPG
I was going to replace the tender completely, but have attempted to save it by:-

Extending the frames and replacing the buffer beam.
Making new coal raves.
Post_Tender_01 - small.JPG
This model will be of 3466 (ex 625) one of the LNER built engines.
Making the lubrication pipes on the LH side has been really tricky. They are not really correct even now, after three attempts, but sanity has prevailed and they will have to do.
Post_Loco_02 - small.JPG
(Apologies for poor photography )
Last edited by drmditch on Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:10 pm, edited 21 times in total.

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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Make do and Mend - Story of a Q7

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:03 am

An excellent innovative loco rescue! Can you say more about the way you sleeved / clad the boiler, including the reverse curve into the lower firebox sides. The Hornby B12 is a potential candidate for a bit of boiler fattening.
Bachmann A2 to A2/3: from my thread in Model Railways page 56 to 83, also

Hornby A3 to A1/1 Great Northern: from page 84, in resin from page 108.


Apologies for so many missing images - see page 1 for reasons & possible solution.

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ArthurK
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Re: Make do and Mend - Story of a Q7

Post by ArthurK » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:12 am

drmditch wrote:I dislike throwing anything away, especially if it is something I have spent time on.

The boiler diameter as supplied by DJH was 22mm. (This was quite an old kit and I do not know if they have changed it since.) This would represent 5’6” diameter, which is the correct boiler outside diameter, but makes no allowance for the cladding. A trip to the NYMR and the real Q6 shows that this is about 2 inches thick. (I didn’t measure it accurately because the boiler was quite hot at the time !). This means (I think) that the correct model diameter should be 23.5mm, and this is the boiler diameter of my Q6.
Not a bad guess at the boiler diameter. The GA give 5' 9 1/2" wich is 23.167mm. I think that we can forget the difference.

ArthurK

drmditch
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
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Re: Make do and Mend - Story of a Q7

Post by drmditch » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:26 pm

Atlantic 3279 wrote:An excellent innovative loco rescue! Can you say more about the way you sleeved / clad the boiler, including the reverse curve into the lower firebox sides. The Hornby B12 is a potential candidate for a bit of boiler fattening.
I found a wooden dowel of slightly under the correct diameter, then cut a piece of plastic sheet .75mm thick to a bit over the correct length and width (allowing for the full boiler length into the cab). It had to allow an overlap to final cutting. Then bent and taped the plastic around the dowel with electrical tape, trying to keep the ends square. Immersed in boiling water several times. The tape needed renewing half way through to keep enough pressure.

Then it is a process of trying and fitting. Once the boiler is reasonably to size, make the vertical cuts for the leading edge of the firebox. This then gives a definite location, so make sure you have left enough plastic at each end of the boiler and smokebox to allow to final trimming. I then scored the inside of the firebox reverse curve and gently eased it out by finger pressure.

(It did take me two attempts to get this right !)

Final fitting and getting a good join at the bolier bottom is also a bit finicky - just don't rush.

Hope this helps.

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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Make do and Mend - Story of a Q7

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:57 pm

Thanks for explaining. Sounds as if, as with many things, it all boils down to care and patience rather than any specific "secret" of technique.

If you need to make plastikard into a tube again, you might like to try my method that needs no tape. I have some 22mm copper pipe, and an old aluminium tubular Sterident container (which was my mother's, I still have teeth). One fits inside the other with just enough room for two layers of 20 thou plastikard forced in between the inner and outer tubes. This allows the whole lot to be give a good long dunk in boiling water followed by an immediate quench under the cold tap. So long as the plastic layers within are the same sizes, so that the whole of their inner and outer faces are fully supported by the metal tubes, perfectly formed plastic without kinks or ripples results every time.
Bachmann A2 to A2/3: from my thread in Model Railways page 56 to 83, also

Hornby A3 to A1/1 Great Northern: from page 84, in resin from page 108.


Apologies for so many missing images - see page 1 for reasons & possible solution.

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All thumbs
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Re: Make do and Mend - Story of a Q7

Post by All thumbs » Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:55 pm

Top tip!

Since all my family still have teeth and I don't run a pharmacy, does anyone know if Steradent still comes in aluminum tubes?
Be gentle! Returning to the hobby after more than 20 years away...

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Saint Johnstoun
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Re: Make do and Mend - Story of a Q7

Post by Saint Johnstoun » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:01 pm

No, but some of the tubes in which Steradent and similar products are supplied are the same diameter as certain 4mm loco boilers - ideal for extending smokeboxes etc.

Steradent tube (plastic) is 26mm diameter (6'6")

Boots denture cleaning tablets - 25mm diameter. (6'3")

Also my mother has Calceos chews for her Oestoparosis and those plastic tubes are 25.7mm diameter.

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manna
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Re: Make do and Mend - Story of a Q7

Post by manna » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:26 pm

G'Day Gents

Bike pumps are 24mm = 6ft :lol:

Nice work on the Q7, would have been a shame to waste it.

manna
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.

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Blink Bonny
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Re: Make do and Mend - Story of a Q7

Post by Blink Bonny » Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:06 pm

If I ain't here, I'm in Bilston, scoffing decent chips at last!!!!

drmditch
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Re: Make do and Mend - Story of a Q7

Post by drmditch » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:01 pm

Post_loco_04.JPG
Slow progress over the last few weeks. Took some time trying to work out the control rodding running along the top of the frames. Close study of Yeadon Volume 23 revealed :-

- Sanding controls along the LH side, with a rod across the frames to control the RH box. I think this is common to several NER engines.
- Rodding on the RH side differs between the NER and LNER build engines. I can only presume this is for the cylinder drain cocks. (I was going to go to Darlington to re-examine 901 – then realised that since it is an NER example it wouldn’t help).

I also took some time to work out the LH side of the smokebox. Diagram 49 boilers have the blower control valve on the side of the smokebox, with the control rod running through the LH boiler handrail. The picture of the cab layout in K Hoole ‘NER Locomotives’ shows the control handwheel. The 49A boiler doesn’t have this, but I wondered if it was a BR modification. I eventually found in RCTS 6C that when the Diagram 56 Boiler for the Q5 was redesigned, the blower control became internal, as it is on the 50A boiler on the Q6 at Grosmont.

So no nice valve on the smokebox side – which is a shame as it would have made making the boiler handrail much easier.

I have made the steam reversing gear out of rod and tube and solder. It is a bit overscale, but at least it is all my own. ! The footsteps on the smokebox front were also tricky to make.

The mechanical lubricators are the original DJH ones, reworked a bit. They are slightly too large. The handwheels come Dave Alexander.
Post_loco_05.JPG
It is coming on now. The problem I always have at this stage wanting to rush to complete it !

I will try to get some better pictures next time.

jwealleans
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Re: Make do and Mend - Story of a Q7

Post by jwealleans » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:31 am

You should be very pleased with that.

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60800
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Re: Make do and Mend - Story of a Q7

Post by 60800 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:39 am

do you have a piccie of her before the rebuild?
36C - Based out of 50H and 36F

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Blink Bonny
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Re: Make do and Mend - Story of a Q7

Post by Blink Bonny » Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:16 pm

Ay up!

Top work, well done!

Dunno what my post of 45212 in wallpaper's doing in the middle of all this.... :roll:
If I ain't here, I'm in Bilston, scoffing decent chips at last!!!!

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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Make do and Mend - Story of a Q7

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:54 pm

The surface finish on the painted, re-clad boiler, and the standard of application of extra details look very nice indeed. The final result should be very satisfying to see, when revealed.
Bachmann A2 to A2/3: from my thread in Model Railways page 56 to 83, also

Hornby A3 to A1/1 Great Northern: from page 84, in resin from page 108.


Apologies for so many missing images - see page 1 for reasons & possible solution.

drmditch
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
Posts: 680
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:55 pm
Location: Durham

Re: Make do and Mend - Story of a Q7

Post by drmditch » Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:26 am

Loco_post_06 - Small.JPG
Well, here is a nearly finished loco. Still to do are the top lamp iron and the tender brake gear.
Loco_post_05 - Small.JPG
3466 (ex 625) is in 1947 condition, as far as I can work out from Yeadon Vol23 page 115. It did look nice in smooth black, and the pictures show up my lack of weathering skills. It looks better in reality! It is still a bit of a noisy runner, unlike the Q6 which has exactly the same mechanism.

I am afraid I cannot find a picture of it before the rebuild - but the illustration on the DJH box gives the game away. My rebuilt one looks much more like a Q7.

Thank you for all the nice comments. The next task is to finish off my scratchbuilt Sentinel Railcar.

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