Make do and Mend - Three CCTs all in a Row

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drmditch
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Re: Make do and Mend - Story of a Q7

Post by drmditch » Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:34 am

Loco_post_11 - small.JPG
A rather blurry picture to show the work on tender, which I am also pleased with.
Now what shall I do with the 4,125 gal tender I bought for this project but didn't use ...

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Re: Make do and Mend - Story of a Q7

Post by Majormagna » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:18 am

Looks great! Makes me wish even more that 901 was in running condition!
Moors Bound

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2002EarlMarischal
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Re: Make do and Mend - Story of a Q7

Post by 2002EarlMarischal » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:20 pm

There's something about a nice big goods engine... I always think it's a shame they didn't name them - that would have been a challenge! :lol:

Please could you clarify one point for me that the RCTS books and this forum haven't so far (and I have searched around)?

If my eyes are not failing me I believe under that weathered look there are gold letters and numbers. I do not understand what the criteria was for the use of gold shaded as opposed to yellow shaded numbers (pre-war).

It does not appear to be as clear cut as green engines had gold and black engines had yellow. In my display cabinets I have RTR black engines, lined and unlined, with both gold and yellow, though not on the same engine! :?

Is half my stock inaccurate, or is there a right answer at all - did it depend on the whim at the time?

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Re: Make do and Mend - Story of a Q7

Post by jwealleans » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:38 pm

Black engines, yellow lettering. Green engines, gold lettering. There's probably an exception (though I don't recall ever seeing it) but that was the spec.

drmditch
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Re: Make do and Mend - Story of a Q7

Post by drmditch » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:56 pm

[quote="2002EarlMarischal"]
If my eyes are not failing me I believe under that weathered look there are gold letters and numbers. I do not understand what the criteria was for the use of gold shaded as opposed to yellow shaded numbers (pre-war).

It does not appear to be as clear cut as green engines had gold and black engines had yellow. In my display cabinets I have RTR black engines, lined and unlined, with both gold and yellow, though not on the same engine! :quote]

It took some time to work out for this engine. According to Yeadon Vol 23, No 625 it was shopped in 1942 and 1945. in one of these it was repainted and was given (as a wartime economy) just the letters 'NE' on the tender. At this time I think there were still stocks of transfers, so they would have been yellow and red. When it was renumbered in 1946, I suspect it would have just received painted numbers in unshaded Gill sans.

If you look at page 115, you will see that 901 carried 'NE' and it's original number in what appear to be transfers.This picture has to be after July 1942 and before October 1946, when it was renumbered. The bottom picture on the page shows 63466 (ex 625/3466) with it's BR number but still with 'NE' on the tender. The caption does not state that when it was renumbered in November 1946 it was numbered with painted Gill sans, but since 3461 and 3467 which were outshopped just before and just after 3466 did get Gill sans, it seems reasonable to assume that 3466 did as well.

So, my 3466 in 1947 condition has yellow and red transfers on the tender, but the number in Gill sans. (To tell the truth, I did try the Yellow and Red transfers for the number , but they just didn't look correct. In any case, by 1947 it would have been quite dirty anyway.)

I hope this explains what I have done.

NB I have realised that I still have not fitted the sandpipes and cylinder drain controls.

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2002EarlMarischal
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Re: Make do and Mend - Story of a Q7

Post by 2002EarlMarischal » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:01 pm

Thanks drmditch but there was no need to explain, I'm sure your research was thorough - it's just that I was/still am confused about the use of shaded letters/numbers in general - it's certainly a complicated matter for the modeller!

drmditch
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Re: Make do and Mend - a Q7 and other projects

Post by drmditch » Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:09 pm

I still have not managed to improve my photography, nor have I put the finishing touches to my Q7.
However, I have been trying to finish off details on other projects. Here is my attempt at a Sentinel railcar. It is one of the early articulated ones to Diagram 89, No 272 ‘Hero’. It is made from a variety of parts, and the engine section is based around a very old Triang motor bogie, although it is now powered by a Tenshodo motor bogie. The parts I have just finished are the six sets of footsteps – which hardly show in the pictures.
Hero_small_01.jpg
The pictures do show the tumblehome, which some models of these units do not. (It shows most where the sides meet the vertical ends.) I do wonder whether I have overdone this, but the pictures in Yeadon Vol 12 make it quite clear.
Hero_small_02.JPG
Apologies again for the photographs. I will try to take some in natural daylight.

Better pictures posted - still cruel to my modelling! (27/07/13)
Post_03.JPG
Post_04.JPG
Last edited by drmditch on Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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manna
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Re: Make do and Mend - Story of a Q7

Post by manna » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:22 pm

G'Day Gents

An awful lot of work went into that, and it looks brilliant, got to build one, .....one day :lol:

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Re: Make do and Mend - a Q7 and other projects

Post by WOOTANG » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:10 am

hi everybody,
although i haven't built a DJH Q7 i have built the Q6 from the same company but i tried to white metal solder it and i thought it turned out quite well i am in the middle of just touching up on bit of paintwork but the loco is already complete
(not bad for a first kit)
i will finish the touching up and i will be posting videos of my stock on youtube
4472 flying scotsman an engine for all era's

drmditch
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Re: Make do and Mend - a Q7 and other projects

Post by drmditch » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:04 pm

My current project is a conversion from the old Hornby Clerestories (which I think are of a GW Prototype) to an 52’ NER Diagram Dia94A. This one is to going be finished in LNER 1947 condition, with electric lighting.

I have done three of these previously, all of which are in late NER finish, with gas lighting.
Post_NERCL_01 - Small.JPG
The basic method is simple:-

1. Decide which of the body mouldings give the best match
2. Strip the donor vehicles to the basic mouldings
3. ‘Cut and Shut’ to produce an appropriate side profile.
4. Produce new ends (but see below)
5. Make new headstocks and fit buffers.
6. Make new underframe trussing, brake gear, and Gas Cylinders !
7. Make (or adapt) and mount bogies
8. Cut and shut the roof – then
a. Open up the clerestory windows and make the corners square.
b. Make a new clerestory roof from thin plastic with strip along the edges to produce a square edge. (The originals have a rounded edge.) I think that the prototype ‘dreadnought roof’ was basically the same on the GWR and the NER.

9. Fit ventilators
10. Make and fit coach end detail

Then, if you are a glutton for punishment, and want gas lighting, make the pots on the roof from three diameters of plastic rod and fit gas pipes from fuse wire.

I have made the roofs removable, by fitting brass nuts soldered to a small plate and re-using the long brass bolts that Hornby used for the original. It is future intention to fit these three coaches with lighting. (if I ever get round to it.)

The worst failings on my three NER coaches are the ends. I re-used the Hornby ends after cutting, shaving, and flattening them to get rid of the GWR curve. However the number of battens does not match the NER vehicles, and this shows very much on the brake ends, where the end windows become too large.

For the new vehicle I have made entirely new ends.

The bogies are also wrong. As a temporary measure I re-used the Hornby ones fitted with footboards. I have some Roxey 8’ Fox bogies to replace them with.

I have made the roofs removable, by fitting brass nuts soldered to a small plate and re-using the long brass bolts that Hornby used for the original. It is future intention to fit these three coaches with lighting. (if I ever get round to it.)
Post_NERCL_02 - Small.JPG

In my (quite extensive) library I have not managed to find any drawings of a coach in 1947 condition.
There are some photographs of an eight compartment all third (I presume used as a strengthener ) on Middlesbrough – Newcastle trains.

As far as I can see the footboards (although not those on the bogies) must have been removed in the 1940’s.
I also don’t know how the battery boxes and dynamos were laid out on ex NER vehicles. I found one picture which shows box offset to one end.

I would be very grateful if anybody has information about these details.

drmditch
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Re: Make do and Mend - A Q7/Sentinels/NER Coaches

Post by drmditch » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:30 pm

Have removed plastic GRW grab handles from the latest project. Will have to make new brass ones, unless anyone knows a source of supply ?
(Although I'm always reluctant to spend money on what will always be a compromise !)

barry rhys
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Re: Make do and Mend - A Q7/Sentinels/NER Coaches

Post by barry rhys » Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:50 am

Hello Mr. Ditch (I presume?), grand to see you doing these coaches. Just imagine how good they would look in the NER lake. Can I ask you please which drawing is available for the Dia 94A, also for any other Diagrams of these clerestories? Also, I realise there are some compromises, but could you give an idea of the closeness of the compartment sizes between the Triangs and the real ones please? I notice that the internal compartment size of 8 compartments in a 52' body works out at around 6'4", which really is generous for a pregrouping 3rd class.
drmditch wrote:Have removed plastic GRW grab handles from the latest project. Will have to make new brass ones, unless anyone knows a source of supply ?
Unfortunately there is no indication on your drawing of the shape and size of the NER grab handles, and I'm afraid I'm not familiar with them myself. However, checking out photographs on the Internet of the restored NER clerestory No.3071 at Beamish, they appear to be simple ' ] '-shaped handles coming out at the upper waist moulding and going back in at the lower waist moulding (but with rounded corners - unfortunately my keyboard doesn't have any 'grab handle' keys)?

If so, have a look at these: http://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/store_f ... duct=4A117

I have used Roxey Mouldings for absolutely non-Southern related pregrouping coach bits on several occasions - for example their LSWR/SECR/LBSCR coaches use a mixture of heavyweight and lightweight Fox bogies with 3 different types of bogie springs (transverse leaf, single coil and twin coil), which cover the Fox bogie combinations of many pregrouping railways across the country. Dave Hammersley, the proprietor, was always really helpful on the phone and by E-mail to work out which of his etchings would suit my needs (in my case, Caledonian and G&SWR).

If you look at the '4mm Scale Accessories' you'll find 5 different shapes of grabrails, and I know that the LSWR ones (Ref.4A117) matched my description above for the upper-to-lower waist moulding dimension of my particular coach - which was at least similar to the Triang GWR clerestory's dimension (sorry I'm not at home to measure an etch now - I'll edit this later when I've found out).

There may well be other suppliers of such etches. Some people would argue that flat etches can never correctly represent the rounded edges of real grab handles. Others may argue that, when magnified, etched edges are rounded anyway and accurately represent the prototype. Personally I will respectfully allow debate to continue, while drilling two little holes in a scrap of brass, soldering another scrap to it as a guide, and folding up all 16 handles required (or all 72 on one fret if I'm enjoying it) before I've had time to shake a stick.
drmditch wrote:Although I'm always reluctant to spend money on what will always be a compromise!
Being a Yorky, I'm always reluctant to spend money on anything. But as a choice between spending 2 quid 20p (sorry, my keyboard doesn't do pound signs either!) plus P+P at Roxey Mouldings, or bending all the grab handles out of wire/rod/pins/other fiddly methods available - all of which are possibilities, as long as you make a little bending pattern first - I'll definitely let my kids go without potted dog sandwiches for a week or so and spend (grooaannn) the brass on...err...some brass.

S'pose I should mention that I've got no connection with Roxey other than as a very satisfied customer, and I know nothing about whether the site's Online Ordering System is anything other than a colourful button - I always do things by E-mail and phone.

Neil
Half Welsh, 100% Yorkshireman

drmditch
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Re: Make do and Mend - A Q7/Sentinels/NER Coaches

Post by drmditch » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:39 am

Thank you Mr Rhys.
The documentation I use is :-
1. NER Diagrams 'of Principal Classes of Passenger Train Vehicles' - published by The North Eastern Railway Association. (which I thoroughly recommend joining anyway).
There are five volumes of these in A4 format spiral bound. 94a is in Volume 1. These are diagrams not scale drawings but main dimensions are noted. The Triang/Hornby moulding is under width by 2mm (should be 8'6" wide). The compartments are indeed shown as 6'4" long. By 'cutting and shutting' as shown it is possible to get a reasonable representation of this.

2. A re-print of Sidney Stones book 'Railway Carriages and Wagons' of 1903 published by Peter Kay as ISBN 899890. It has a detail drawing at about 6.125mm to the foot of an NER bogie carriage, although this appears to be missing some details.

3. NER Record Volume 1 with colour pictures of the Beamish example

Thank you for the link to Roxey. I may end up making a jig to bend them up out of brass wire - only 16 to do !

They do look in lake - if my first picture can be taken as an example !

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Re: Make do and Mend - A Q7/Sentinels/NER Coaches

Post by barry rhys » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:40 am

Thanks very much for the references. Happily I have a copy of the 1903 Sidney Stone reprint, which I looked out last night. I have used it for its Caley drawings and all of the coach construction details - a real mine of information - but never realised it had the drawing of the NER Clerestory lavvy composite in it. I'll have a look at the NERA website and contact them regarding the Diagrams, but unfortunately I can't afford to join another line society in addition to my present two.

About the grab handles, I think you're right, if I was just doing one coach I would also go for the bending option. I checked my Roxey etches but I was mistaken about the ones I had bought - actually it was the swan-necked SECR grab handles I had bought for some Midland coaches, so I hadn't got the LSWR ones to measure anyway.

Thanks again,
Neil
Half Welsh, 100% Yorkshireman

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Re: Make do and Mend - A Q7/Sentinels/NER Coaches

Post by Bill Bedford » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:38 am

barry rhys wrote:About the grab handles, I think you're right, if I was just doing one coach I would also go for the bending option.
Investing in one of these will make the bending option easier............

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