Make do and Mend - now Cattle and Containers

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earlswood nob
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Re: Make do and Mend - exploring the GNR

Post by earlswood nob » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:33 pm

G'day all

I look forward to seeing the completed model.

A number of J54 had domeless boilers (even in LNER days). AGW does a Stirling type safety valve trumpet which was fitted to many J54's.

I am surprised that J52 conversions haven't cropped up before.

I have a couple of old BEC J52's which are intended for conversion into (1) J55 with open cab, and (2) J57 with low cab and boiler mountings.

The Mainly Trains J52 chassis is very useful. I am fitting one to the J73 that I'm building from a G5, and I have one put aside for a Kay's J3.

Earlswood nob

LNER4479
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Re: Make do and Mend - exploring the GNR

Post by LNER4479 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:42 pm

Looks like a great job so far with the retro-build DRM :D

I can't imagine there'll be too many know-it-all's at exhibitions who'll be able to authoritatively point out any of the compromises you mention; for me, the overall effect of having something just that little bit different (in contrast to the 'standard' J52) will have a far greater impact.

Looking forward to seeing more (in your own time, of course!)
Last edited by LNER4479 on Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'Robert' (the Devil)
(recreating pre-war Grantham in model form viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9076. Forthcoming exhibition appearances: Hartlepool (Oct 2017), Lincoln (Feb 2018), Ally-Pally (March 2018)

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manna
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Re: Make do and Mend - exploring the GNR

Post by manna » Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:16 am

G'day gents

I did a half hearted attempt, of a Hornby chassis for a J57, I took the wheels off of a 'Nellie' (well two Nellie's) and fitted them to a 'Jinty' chassis, the correct size wheels (16mm) lowered the chassis to the point that the pick up's fouled the track, and so did the large brass gear wheel, I still haven't given up on a J57, but I might have to come about it, from a different direction.

manna
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drmditch
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Re: Make do and Mend - exploring the GNR

Post by drmditch » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:10 pm

Some progress, although not as fast as hoped owing to working on house, cold/flu bug, etc etc.

The bunker flare comes from sections of an old propelling pencil. I'm quite pleased with the mitreing! The boiler bottom comes from an old till-roll centre. (This thread is called 'make-do-and-mend' after all!)
Post_04.JPG
The cab roof I'm less pleased with. It took a lot of thinking and made slow progress. Rather than make it in one piece I produced four layers of thin plastic. This was easier to offer-up, cut to shape, and bond. There was almost a disaster when the solvent started to distort it after I had thought all was secure!
Post_05.JPG
The Mainly Trains (designed by Iain Rice) frames are trickier to assemble then I was expecting. I wasn't able to use my Comet jigs, because the frame spacers are wider then the (for me) 'normal' Comet ones. I may yet un-solder the whole thing and re-work it.

Gearbox is a Comet GB5 with the DE50 drice extender. Together with the Mashima 1620 motor this should result in quite a powerful little engine, provided I can get enough weight into it.

It will look better when the red face is obscured!

earlswood nob
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Re: Make do and Mend - exploring the GNR

Post by earlswood nob » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:29 pm

G'day all

The Mainly Trains chassis spacers leave little or zero side play in the axles.
I solder a Comet spacer to the Mainly Trains Spacer and file away until I get the same width, then separate the spacers. After assembly (Using Comet jigs), I file away the small excess of the tabs on the Mainly trains spacers.

I do like how the J54 is coming along, the bunker flare looks good
The 1620 will make it quite a powerful loco, and 50:1 gears will make it quite nippy.

Earlswood nob

drmditch
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Re: Make do and Mend - exploring the GNR

Post by drmditch » Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:37 pm

Well, hopefully 'nippy' but not too fast! The idea is for powerful slow running.
Most of my engines have Comet 50-1 gearboxes of one kind or another. They work well at slow speed. But then I've never built an express locomotive yet. It's all very well for these big-wheeled engines to dash about with everyone making a fuss of them, but somebody has to earn the real money!

(Or as in the case of this little J54, have to do the boring but important tasks. Those horseboxes and strengthening vehicles don't add and detach themselves you know!)

earlswood nob
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Re: Make do and Mend - exploring the GNR

Post by earlswood nob » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:16 pm

G'day all

I was judging nippy by my standards of loco speeds. Like DRM, I build for slow running. 50:1 or 54:1 being my usual gearbox ratio. I have a 1024 in my J52's, one 54:1 and one 80:1. The 1620 is about 20% more powerful than the 1024.
When I first started modelling over 40 years ago, Alex Bowie of Modelmania at Norbury station said; " Anybody can make a loco run fast, but the skill comes in making a loco run slow and smooth".
Even passenger locos on branch line work, never went very fast. There was even a A7 shunting/trip loco tried on Durham secondary routes. The delightful J21's were used on many branch-line workings.
I must get back to my workbench as these coach interiors won't build themselves.

Earlswood nob

LNER4479
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Re: Make do and Mend - exploring the GNR

Post by LNER4479 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:07 pm

Looking good :D

The uneven spacings of the coupled wheels shows up well. I'm sure you'll 'crack' the optimal running configuration with the chassis.

And yes, you're quite right - somebody's gotta shunt them horseboxes :lol:
'Robert' (the Devil)
(recreating pre-war Grantham in model form viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9076. Forthcoming exhibition appearances: Hartlepool (Oct 2017), Lincoln (Feb 2018), Ally-Pally (March 2018)

drmditch
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Re: Make do and Mend - still south of Shaftholme

Post by drmditch » Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:15 am

Well, it's over a year since the last post on this thread. What with all the work following my house-move, and the start of construction/re-construction of my new railway (determinedly well north of Shaftholme!) there hasn't been a lot of time for the little J54. However, some progress has been made, and now I have powered tracks again it has been possible to do more.

I was never happy with the smokebox inherited from the donor J52 model, so after much consideration it has been replaced. (Insides of till-rolls are very useful.) Now I need to fettle up all the little faults shown up by the grey primer.
Post_06.JPG
The 'works' have also been completed to a 'running' stage.
Post_07.JPG
The Iain Rice designed chassis is very accurate, and the rods fitted with no fettling required at all. As designed, I could see nowhere to fit electrical contacts. The J52s (or most of them) had leaf springs under the wheel bearings, and these are represented on the frame etches. I eventually realised that the J54s had springs above the wheels (but see below), so removing them from the frames provided a position for the phosphor bronze wire wiper contacts.

I was unable to get suitable un-insulated wheels (the GNR wheesets have the crankpins between spokes), so this is the first time I've built a model without a 'live' chassis. It has therefore double the number of contacts I'm used to. They look a bit obtrusive at the moment, but black paint and brake detail will (probably) hide them adequately.

One of the reasons for the delay in construction was that after my move I couldn't find my blocks of lead from which I hack and hammer ballast weights for my models. I've now discovered one of them!

Since this model is quite small, and (unlike the Hornby original) has space under the boiler and an open cab, it is a matter of fitting small weights where one can. So far:-
- inside the ashpan
- under the motion plate (or where the motion plate will be)
- Under the bunker
- under the cylinder block (or where that will be!)

These are all in the chassis, so helps running in.

Most of the weight is in the bunker and smokebox, and there is more to be added inside the saddle tank. The latter has to be removable to alow the motor to be squeezed through the firebox.

The model is already heavier than the original J52, and runs (so far) quite smoothly. It navigates all my newly laid pointwork (double and single slips and small radius curves included) and since it collects current from all wheels doesn't seem affected by my crude track breaks and (remaining) insulfrog points.

Before it can be finished, I need to find some answers to some 'Doncaster' questions. For ease I'll put these in a separate post under 'Locomotives and Rolling Stock' ....here....

There are still some basic compromises in cab and tank width, but I think it begins to resemble No.3637A as shown in Fig30 of RCTS Part 8A.

Now it needs to get finished so I can resume work on another long lived 19th century engine, not to mention all the work on the new railway.

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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Make do and Mend - still south of Shaftholme

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:45 am

I thought this update rather apt in view of a recent encounter with a layout owner who really ought to have a similar loco for his Boston (Hall Hills) sleeper depot. I've sent him a link.
Bachmann A2 to A2/3: from my thread in Model Railways page 56 to 83, also

Hornby A3 to A1/1 Great Northern: from page 84, in resin from page 108.


Apologies for so many missing images - see page 1 for reasons & possible solution.

drmditch
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Re: Make do and Mend - still south of Shaftholme

Post by drmditch » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:09 pm

The problem with little engines is that there is so much detail to add!
At least I've started on the pipework, and I've just about managed a representation of the sand control rodding.

Post_08.JPG
After useful replies to my 'Doncaster' questions ...here... I've tried to represent the double springs on this engine. It might make a talking point anyway!

The running now seems to be quite smooth, having adjusted the phosphor-bronze wire contacts properly. It doesn't keep making little arcs now, and doesn't disturb Radio 3 at all. I must be a luddite because , by comparison, I've always found live chassis much easier than this one. Never mind, the next two locomotive projects have insulated and non-insulated wheels already in stock.

There is lead crammed into every available space, and the model is now heavier than the Hornby original, mazak chassis and all by over 2oz (that's 56.7g in new money - but my scales came from my great grandmother and are probably contemporaneous with the original of this engine.)

Now I can't find the stock of handrail pillars. I know I've got some somewhere, and this engine needs rails everywhere!

john coffin
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Re: Make do and Mend - still south of Shaftholme

Post by john coffin » Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:28 pm

looks an interesting take.
it is worth considering that the hand rail pillars on the tank top are in fact more near to being 2mm or 3mm scale, ie 4mm pillars would
be way too large.

Paul

drmditch
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Re: Make do and Mend - still south of Shaftholme

Post by drmditch » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:32 pm

Thank you Paul, I had considered that. In fact (from the picture I'm working from (RCTS Part 8A fig 30)) it's quite difficult to work out the tank top arrangements. There appear to be two parallel close fitting rails, and (at least on the LH side) a higher, shorter rail with three pillars. There is also a grab handle somewhere near the centre front - presumably conveniently for using the step on the side of the smokebox, which is the fireman's side.

I have worked out that what appears to be another rail beside the LH centre splasher is in fact two short posts for storing fire irons. This will be interesting on the model. Perhaps I should include the bucket stashed in front of the cab as well!

Siting the handbrake still worries me, and there appears to be a toolbox on the LH side of the bunker top.

These little engines do seem to need a lot of detail!

LNER4479
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Re: Make do and Mend - still south of Shaftholme

Post by LNER4479 » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:33 pm

Looking good - antiquated and charismatic (said with the best possible intent, of course!) :D
'Robert' (the Devil)
(recreating pre-war Grantham in model form viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9076. Forthcoming exhibition appearances: Hartlepool (Oct 2017), Lincoln (Feb 2018), Ally-Pally (March 2018)

drmditch
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
Posts: 680
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Re: Make do and Mend - still south of Shaftholme

Post by drmditch » Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:09 pm

Post_09.JPG
That's quite enough bits-and-pieces added thank you-very-much. And why did you leave my nice brass bonnet off when you took this picture?
I may be 'antiquated', and I'm a 136 years old thank-you-very-much, (well I would be if I hadn't been scrapped in 1930) but how am I supposed to look 'charismatic' if you leave off my best features?

And hadn't you better get on with my brakes and buffers instead of writing up silly notes?

And you spent all yesterday visiting 'real steam engines' whatever you mean by that, and the oldest one of those is only 98, young flippertijibet of a thing. She wasn't running because of a problem with her reversing gear? So what about mine then? Hadn't you better think how your going to make that toothed quadrant and what about........

What do you mean, your going to cut the grass?

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