Make do and Mend - Running Late for Winter

This forum is for the discussion of railway modelling of the LNER and its constituent companies.

Moderators: 52D, Rlangham, Atlantic 3279, Blink Bonny, Saint Johnstoun, richard, Tom F

drmditch
NER C7 4-4-2
Posts: 829
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:55 pm
Location: Durham

Re: Make do and Mend - with multiple girders

Post by drmditch » Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:42 pm

Having constructed 12 girders, and needing some time to think about the representation of the trough girder sitting above the trusses, and also needing a break from wiring (which I am not good at making neat and tidy!), I have worked on a little project with yet another cattle wagon.

One can buy the Oxford Models LNER wagon attempting to represent Dia 39 for much less than the equivalent (but more accurate) Parkside kit. Having an Oxford version in stock, I processed it as below.
Post_20.JPG
Post_21.JPG
Post_22.JPG
POst_23.JPG
I had already used modified Parkside kits to represent Dia 122 with 10' wheelbase, so this one represents a Dia 132 as illustrated on Mr Banks most useful website ..... here... You need to scroll about half way down the page to see this particular vehicle.

(Apologies for the out-of-scale screw coupling. It was only posed for the picture before the Bachmann style tension lock couplings were re-fitted. It does look better without it but I was too lazy to re-take the photograph)

It is interesting that the diagonal struts are only re-inforced at the bottom end on this vehicle. (It also of course meant less work!) The additional plates on Dia 122 are modelled on the bottom of page 16 of this thread.

The Oxford model is held together by the buffers, which are best pushed out from the inside. The Oxford plastic is quite tough and needs careful cutting. It does join with Plastic Weld, but it needs quite a lot of the solvent. You will see the basic method from the pictures. The internal re-inforcement has to be set in from the sides, and it would have been easier of I had set it in from the ends as well. Do remember to paint the white plastic black before re-assembly, otherwise it shows rather badly through the slotted planks. (As you will realise I forgot this!) I used the plastic sections I had to hand. Leaving the trough in the middle does allow a convenient location for weights.

The rectification of the 'handed' sides takes about 40 minutes. The rebuilding of the underframe was disrupted by my dropping some of the brake rigging on the floor and then wasting hours searching before making the replacements. (The 'new' railway room has a hard laminate floor and small parts bounce and skitter away like mad things.)

I also spent some time on updating the axleboxes to represent the cast steel versions. They looked rather crude 'in the plastic', but now they are trimmed and painted I'm not unhappy with them.

This particular vehicle (in Mr Banks' picture) has one set of three-hole wheels and one of split-spoke. The Oxford split-spoke seem to look quite nice and run reliably, however, they have a longer axle than every other wheelset I have in stock. Replacing one wheelset would have meant more surgery than I wanted to carry out, so I will have to assume that that particular change happened after 1947!
Last edited by drmditch on Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

drmditch
NER C7 4-4-2
Posts: 829
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:55 pm
Location: Durham

Re: Make do and Mend - with multiple girders

Post by drmditch » Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:51 pm

Anyway, I'm not too displeased with the result. PIctured together with the earlier vehicle derived from the Parkside kit:-
Post_24.JPG
I don't think it's that obvious which comes from which!

I suppose the worst remaining compromise is the additional inset of the 'V' Hangers on the Oxford derived model. If I do another one I might correct that. Then again I might not!

(Sorry again for the outsize coupling. Next time I set up the camera I'll re-take the pictures without it!)

There is an interesting difference in tare weights. Dia 122 is 8-12-0, but the Dia 132 (from Mr Banks picture) is 8-6-0. I wouldn't have thought that four smallish steel plates would have weighed three hundredweight. Perhaps Dia 122 had more re-inforcement as well.

User avatar
Atlantic 3279
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 5310
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:51 am
Location: 2850, 245

Re: Make do and Mend - with multiple girders

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:18 am

An interesting approach. If only the model had been right to start with.......
Most subjects, models and techniques covered in this thread are now listed in various categories on page1

Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.

drmditch
NER C7 4-4-2
Posts: 829
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:55 pm
Location: Durham

Re: Make do and Mend - with multiple girders

Post by drmditch » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:27 pm

Atlantic 3279 wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:18 am
An interesting approach. If only the model had been right to start with.......
I do agree. However, things being as they are, if you want a 10' wheelbase wagon then the 40 min or so of additional work to correct the sides and partition spacers on the Oxford version is not very significant. There is actually more work to do building and modifying the kit. Personally, I find making and fitting the sidebars tricky and time consuming.

I think it depends on the relative costs of the Parkside kit vs the inadequate Oxford product.

There are now eleven fitted/piped vehicles in my (empty) cattle train. Still in the kits box is an NER medium wagon and another LMS vehicle.
For some strange reason I would quite like to make LNWR and GCR and GER examples.

But I do have odd ideas sometimes!

Atso
LNER A3 4-6-2
Posts: 1340
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:58 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Make do and Mend - with multiple girders

Post by Atso » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:04 pm

Lovely work on those cattle trucks. I've built a 2mm scale etched kit of one and I really should get around to painting it!
Steve

drmditch
NER C7 4-4-2
Posts: 829
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:55 pm
Location: Durham

Re: Make do and Mend - with multiple girders

Post by drmditch » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:50 pm

Work has been done on the railway since the last post. The four span girder bridge is now - nearly - complete, and this morning I attempted to take some pictures. This is difficult because even in winter light, the camera has to point into the sun. There are several gaps to fill and details to add, but over-all I'm not displeased.

The first picture just shows the four spans:-
Post_101.jpg
(Rubbish picture but it puts the bridge into context.)

Then we can see some of the detail of the truss girders, the trough girders, and the handrails:
Post_103.jpg
And then the ballasted deck with walkways and ballast boards :
Post_102.jpg
The whole thing looks better with a train crossing:-
Post_100a.jpg
Many thanks to those people who have contributed elsewhere to the discussions on colour.

65447
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 1541
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Overlooking the GEML

Re: Make do and Mend - with multiple girders

Post by 65447 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:27 pm

Looking really good :)

User avatar
R. pike
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 760
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:21 pm
Location: just off the GN mainline
Contact:

Re: Make do and Mend - with multiple girders

Post by R. pike » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:22 pm

drmditch wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:50 pm
Work has been done on the railway since the last post. The four span girder bridge is now - nearly - complete, and this morning I attempted to take some pictures. This is difficult because even in winter light, the camera has to point into the sun. There are several gaps to fill and details to add, but over-all I'm not displeased.

The first picture just shows the four spans:-

Post_101.jpg

(Rubbish picture but it puts the bridge into context.)

Then we can see some of the detail of the truss girders, the trough girders, and the handrails:

Post_103.jpg

And then the ballasted deck with walkways and ballast boards :

Post_102.jpg

The whole thing looks better with a train crossing:-

Post_100a.jpg

Many thanks to those people who have contributed elsewhere to the discussions on colour.
Most inspirational. A super looking structure. I will have to try something bigger. This is about as big as i have dared so far..

https://www.flickr.com/photos/32297024@N08/41010970765/

I have rather brutally dressed the rails with a rough file so trains rumble when crossing. It doesn't seem to have affected running/electrical pickup etc.

drmditch
NER C7 4-4-2
Posts: 829
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:55 pm
Location: Durham

Re: Make do and Mend - with multiple girders

Post by drmditch » Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:34 pm

R. pike wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:22 pm
Most inspirational. A super looking structure. I will have to try something bigger. This is about as big as i have dared so far..

https://www.flickr.com/photos/32297024@N08/41010970765/

I have rather brutally dressed the rails with a rough file so trains rumble when crossing. It doesn't seem to have affected running/electrical pickup etc.
A very strong looking girder. What are the dimensions, and what is it built from?

I have left two sets of 1.5 mm expansion gaps on my bridge - so I get a nice 'rail joint' noise anyway.

User avatar
R. pike
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 760
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:21 pm
Location: just off the GN mainline
Contact:

Re: Make do and Mend - with multiple girders

Post by R. pike » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:26 pm

It's just over 40cm long and the bulk of it is made from 0.3mm plasticard. It was horrendously floppy until near completion. Full strength after 24 hours or so proved it to be highly robust. I did experiment with various items to try and make it rattle. A brass pin with tiny washers then small discs of aluminium pie dish cut with a hole punch but nothing really worked.

The original certainly does have a rattle to it. I had a day testing signals during a possession to get acquainted with with the original and a few days leading up to commissioning to be near enough to hear it under traffic.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/32297024@ ... 1467443162

drmditch
NER C7 4-4-2
Posts: 829
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:55 pm
Location: Durham

Re: Make do and Mend - Running Late for Winter

Post by drmditch » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:29 pm

This was meant as a quick project for the post-Christmas period, and I also meant to build two of them!
Post_01.JPG
David and Claire Williamson's book is most interesting and useful, and contains many useful drawings. I think that someone else has produced (or maybe is going to produce) a 3D printed model of one of the wooden ploughs ......here... I thought it might be interesting to make one of the four steel ploughs built at Gateshead in 1909. These lend themselves better to being built from sheet materials.

Page 48 presents a useful drawing of the LH side at almost exactly 4mm to the foot scale. I scanned this to my computer, and then manipulated it (using the wheelbase as a reference) to print at the correct scale. I also created a 'flipped' image to produce the RH side. The printed drawings were then fixed to cereal packet card with spray adhesive and the basic shape of the side plates cut out.
Post_02.JPG
My original idea was to use these as templates for cutting out either plastic or brass sheets. I then considered (as one does) the relative difficulty of making the curved fairings between the blade and the prow in either of those materials, and the cost if it all went wrong. So, I thought, why not proceed with a card model? At least if it ended up as scrap there would have been no significant material cost. The card used was a mixture of cereal packets, thin card that comes in ladies hosiery packs (from the better suppliers!), and for the main structural plates and pieces, nice nearly 2mm thick card from a Sainsbury's 'made-in-store-pizza. (Not for nothing is this thread called 'make-do-and-mend'!)

The plough roof is a complex shape. Measurements came from the larger scale drawing on page 50 (which is nearly 8mm to the foot). Two attempts were needed. The even more complex fairings were made from heavy gauge printing paper, formed round brass tube and cut to shape. There was a degree of trial and error with this, and it used nearly half a sheet of A4 paper!

These Gateshead-built ploughs had there own frames built for them, unlike many of the wooden ploughs which were built on re-cycled engine or tender frames. However, there is not a lot of frame detail visible on a 4mm model (in fact none!), so I recycled old wagon underframes left over from previous conversions. (See earlier in this thread). These were cut to length and mounted on a strong plastic slab, which was bolted to a heavy brass plate. (The plastic was cut from sheet, the brass was re-cycled from something completely different.) Also bolted to the top of the brass was a plate from the aforementioned pizza base.
Post_03.JPG
Most glueing was done with Rocket Card Glue. Once the basic structure was assembled it was painted with a water-based UV protective mat varnish, and then sprayed with Halfords Gray Primer.
Post_04.JPG
'Fiddley bit's included the handrails for the inset doors. I considered using some of my stock of handrail pillars, but they were all too large. With the aid of a simple jig I soldered then up from .45mm brass wire. Of the four, three went in properly, and one shows an annoying bend! This of course shows in the above picture.

The picture also makes the prow seem blunter than it appears on the actual model. This is one drawback of modelling in card.
Last edited by drmditch on Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

drmditch
NER C7 4-4-2
Posts: 829
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:55 pm
Location: Durham

Re: Make do and Mend - Running Late for Winter

Post by drmditch » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:46 pm

Also surprisingly difficult were the dumb buffers, and I'm not entirely happy with then even now.
Post_05.JPG
This plough will be finished in LNER blue, and well weathered as in the picture on Page 52. This, by-the-way, is the only view of the rear of one of these ploughs that I have found. For the first time I have used Archer's rivets here. They do show better in strong light than they do in the above picture. I hope the weathering will bring them out.

I still have reservations about using card. It is easy to cut precisely, provided that one uses a lot of scalpel blades, and it glues easily.However it's very difficult to keep the surface of large areas pristine, and of course the edges have no strength. To help with this the coulter blade is thin brass affixed with contact adhesive.

On the other hand, it has certainly facilitated a 'low-cost' model, and for a vehicle which will spend most of it's time in a siding at the back of my main station, it may be adequate. The originals lasted into the 1970s (ref. Tatlow Vol 2 Page 175). I think they looked a bit battered in later life!

Next steps are creating a 'faded blue' look, working out what colour the roof might have been in the late 30s, fitting the glazing and cab roof, and trying to make the lettering!

I'm sorry the above pictures are so harsh. They do at least show me things to work on!

User avatar
Atlantic 3279
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 5310
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:51 am
Location: 2850, 245

Re: Make do and Mend - Running Late for Winter

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:50 pm

drmditch wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:29 pm
This was meant as a quick project
I am familiar with the futility of such ideas myself.

I used card for a GC tender once. When several coats of well thinned paint or varnish have soaked into card and have been allowed to cure fully the card can be hard enough to file or to rub down to a smooth, non-hairy finish.
Most subjects, models and techniques covered in this thread are now listed in various categories on page1

Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.

drmditch
NER C7 4-4-2
Posts: 829
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:55 pm
Location: Durham

Re: Make do and Mend - Running Late for Winter

Post by drmditch » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:34 pm

Atlantic 3279 wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:50 pm
drmditch wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:29 pm
This was meant as a quick project
I am familiar with the futility of such ideas myself.

I used card for a GC tender once. When several coats of well thinned paint or varnish have soaked into card and have been allowed to cure fully the card can be hard enough to file or to rub down to a smooth, non-hairy finish.
It wasn't using card that slowed this project down, more my ability to overcome laziness and/or my state of health. The only part that card was really not suitable for was the prow. It was carefully glued, re-inforced, varnished, painted, filed, and painted again it doesn't offend my eyes too much. If I do build another one (these steel ploughs seem to have been built and allocated as a pair) I will try to think of a better method.

Most of the card I used had a nice glazed finish, and didn't produce the dreaded whiskers.

Here are some poor pictures of the (nearly) finished plough. I still need to make the plates and fit lamp-irons.
Post_08.JPG
Post_09.JPG
Post_10.JPG
The 'faded blue colour was attempted to be copied from Page 51 of 'LNER Locomotives in Colour'. I am not sure I succeeded, although in some lights it looks very similar. I was worried at one stage that I had re-created BR blue! I'm reasonably happy with the weathering/rusting. I must try to take it somewhere where a better photographer than myself can illustrate it.

Only four of these ploughs were made, and they were allocated in pairs to Gateshead and Kirkby Stephen. It would seem wrong to have one of these hanging round a siding in Durham, so I have pretended that an additional two were made. (I have yet to build the second one.) The one modelled should have been re-numbered to 900579 (presumably) in 1938, but after coping with long wagon numbers recently I was seduced by the delights of a two digit number.

I don't have a J25 or one of the more common engines used for ploughing, so here is No.25 posing with my J21.
Post_06.JPG

Dave
LNER A3 4-6-2
Posts: 1296
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:33 pm
Location: Centre of the known universe York

Re: Make do and Mend - Running Late for Winter

Post by Dave » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:16 am

Very nice looking model, I like the finish, it's hard to replicate convincingly.

Post Reply