Make do and Mend - Local Produce

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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Make do and Mend - A Q7/Sentinels/NER Coaches/A8/some tr

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Lowmacs: It's much as Jonathan said, buffers and axleboxes largely mark the differences, although the brake levers are different styles too, the shape of the bottom corners of the sideframes is a question as mentioned above, some small plating details are missing from the Dapol kit, that strange box is there on one sideframe, the roping rings are moulded on the Dapol version whereas you're invited to make them up on the D&S, and the planking on the decks is slightly different. In the lowest section, the Dapol vehicle has broad planks across the full width of the deck, whereas the D&S has narrower transverse planks in the middle strip of the deck and steel plates nearer the sides. You'd hardly spot this planking difference even in clean matt grey finish, let alone loaded up and weathered.
Image
Image
One interesting thing I remember about the Dapol kit I bought was that it was "considerately" supplied at the time with Dapol's (then, I thought) reasonable moulded plastic wheels on metal pin-point axles, a distinct improvement on the coarse scale glue-together Airfix wheels of old....EXCEPT the wheels were "universal" 12.6mm disc wagon wheels that don't even FIT let alone suit the Lowmac. Some10.5mm Markits disc wheels saved the day.
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drmditch
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Re: Make do and Mend - A Q7/Sentinels/NER Coaches/A8/some tr

Post by drmditch »

Thank you for the excellent pictures (and the very interesting load!).
Mr Tatlows drawing mentioned above shows longitudinal planking, but as far as it can be seen in some of the photographs, part of the sloping ends between steel plates, was transverse planked.

I've had problems with Dapol wheels before. They seen to produce them with a 'flat' rather than a coned tyre, and this sometimes gives problems with my imperfect track. However, the wheels in the Lowmac kit where not only the correct diameter, but had had nice profile tyres as well.

I shall have to finish my wagon now - although it might take me longer to build a load for it!
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Make do and Mend - A Q7/Sentinels/NER Coaches/A8/some tr

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

drmditch wrote:the very interesting load
Possibly a Deering (or Albion and Deering?) binder, in partly dismantled form (as I guessed it might be) in order to fit the loading gauge for transit. I can't remember the kit maker, but it was mainly whitemetal. I'll look out the old packet if you're really keen to know, I always keep them.
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jwealleans
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Re: Make do and Mend - A Q7/Sentinels/NER Coaches/A8/some tr

Post by jwealleans »

Are the Dapol sides slightly higher and the sloped sections at the end shorter and more steeply inclined, or is that the camera being economical?

I was rather struck by the load as well.
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Make do and Mend - A Q7/Sentinels/NER Coaches/A8/some tr

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

You're dead right, those are genuine differences. In fact the Dapol vehicle is about 1.5mm shorter than the D&S.
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drmditch
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Re: Make do and Mend - A Q7/Sentinels/NER Coaches/A8/some tr

Post by drmditch »

You're dead right, those are genuine differences. In fact the Dapol vehicle is about 1.5mm shorter than the D&S.
Have just checked my Dapol build to the Drawing. It seems to within .3mm of the correct length, (over buffer shields) and the slope of the deck matches very closely as well.
The angle on the ends of the side frames is different, but as mentioned above, I've already modified mine.

Bother! I'll have to finish this vehicle now. I was supposed to be working whether I needed/could afford anything at York tomorrow. I do need to work out a motor/gearbox combination for the J21.
earlswood nob
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Re: Make do and Mend - A Q7/Sentinels/NER Coaches/A8/some tr

Post by earlswood nob »

Morning all
I have just read the early part of this thread about the Q7, and it's a very good solution to an inaccurate model. I shall have to put that on my ever lengthening jobs-to-do list, when I find another roundtuit.
I have two J21's the first I used a Mashima 1024 and a Comet GB5 with 50:1 drive extender driving the rear axle, the second uses a Mashima 1024 and a Highlevel Roadrunner plus 54:1 again driving the rear axle.
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Re: Make do and Mend - A Q7/Sentinels/NER Coaches/A8/some tr

Post by drmditch »

earlswood nob wrote:I have two J21's the first I used a Mashima 1024 and a Comet GB5 with 50:1 drive extender driving the rear axle, the second uses a Mashima 1024 and a Highlevel Roadrunner plus 54:1 again driving the rear axle.
Earlswood Nob
Thank you. I think I will use the 1024,GB5 and 50:1 extender. Would it be possible to ask what is the source of your J21s?
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Re: Make do and Mend - A Q7/Sentinels/NER Coaches/A8/some tr

Post by earlswood nob »

Good morning all
They are old NuCast kits fitted with brass chassis. One chassis I got from Gibson, and one from Comet. The LMS Jinty and 4F have the same wheelbase. When I got back into modelling nearly four years ago, I started replacing the cast chassis of the Nucast kits and the Triang/Hornby chassis of others. Its a long job, but worth it as the addition of a can motor and decent gearbox revitalises the model's performance, as does the addition of brake gear to its looks.
Dave Alexander does a J21 kit which looks much superior to the Nucast kit.
I have just started on a new chassis for the Q7, which is why I found your improvements on the DJH kit. I also have an A8 in its box waiting to be built (for 25+years). So I'll study the rest of your thread.
Keep up the good work
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drmditch
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Re: Make do and Mend - A Q7/Sentinels/NER Coaches/A8/some tr

Post by drmditch »

earlswood nob wrote: Dave Alexander does a J21 kit which looks much superior to the Nucast kit.
Glad you find my experience useful, although I'm sure that the newer Q7 kits are much better than mine.

My J21 project is an Alexander kit, and I also have an older Nucast model to re-work. My Nucast one does have a brass chassis though, and actually runs quite well. I was worried that the boiler o/d might be too small, but have worked out that it's probably adequate, but that it's pitched almost 2mm too high, and of course the cladding bands are too exagerated.

So, I'll build the Alexander example, and then work on it's Nucast sister. Always drink morning coffee with Yeadon 47A at the moment! Trying to decide which example to build; - to superheat or not to superheat - that is the question!
earlswood nob
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Re: Make do and Mend - A Q7/Sentinels/NER Coaches/A8/some tr

Post by earlswood nob »

Good morning all
I don't own any Yeadons, so rely on the green books. Two lots of 20 volumes of Yeadons recently went for £90 each at auction, I wish I'd bid on them, at around a fiver each they were bargains.
I hadn't realised that the Nucast boilers were too high, I shall have to get the Isinglass drawing for the J21 to see if I can improve them at some stage.
When I used to build kits many years ago I merely built them as per instructions. Now, through this forum, I have developed a better method and use drawings, photographs and advice from this forum. I now get a lot more satisfaction from the models I build.
It is strange, but I first built kits in 1969 as therapy, following a injury sustained playing rugby, and restarted after a twently five year gap, again as therapy when I severely broke an arm around four years ago. A one-armed model builder isn't very good, so it encouraged me to use the injured arm more.
I must get back to my workbench.
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drmditch
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Re: Make do and Mend - A Q7/Sentinels/NER Coaches/A8/some tr

Post by drmditch »

Here is my completed Dapol Mac K.
Post_12.JPG
Like most 'quick little' projects it wasn't quite as quick as planned. I think it compares quite well with the photographs in Tatlow Vol 1. I was going to replace the brake levers in brass, (which would have been a better solution) but decided to re-use the plastic ones slightly modified. I gave up the idea of replacing the holding-down rings after doing two of them! (and loosing another one.) I did worry about the relatively thin plastic structure warping, so cut away the nice Dapol cross-girders and bolted on a brass plate. I normaly build a brass structure into the 'weaker' kits, like the Parkside bogie bolster vehicles. It provides rigidity and adds weight to an unloaded vehicle.
Post_13.JPG
The only problem now is that at 14 ton capacity, it can't carry the load planned for it! There is a solution to that though, even though it may delay starting the J21. (That is if I don't spend too much time browsing pictures of Bramblewick from Saturday.)
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Re: Make do and Mend - A Q7/Sentinels/NER Coaches/A8/some tr

Post by markindurham »

I'm late to this party, but there are some stunning pieces of work in this thread - and 30 years to build one kit - I feel so much better now! Funnily enough, I have both an H1 and an A8 kit to build at some point; both recent eBay wins. Hopefully my timescale for them will be less than 30 years...

Best
Mark
drmditch
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Re: Make do and Mend - Now with added Eccentrics

Post by drmditch »

I was going to wait until one engine was finished before I posted this, but it’s taken quite a lot of work so far, and from (when viewed from some angles) I am quite pleased with it.

There are two J21s on my workbench at the moment. One is a new build Alexander kit, which will be built as a non-superheated, slide-valve, Joy geared version. I developed a plan to give it a representation of its internal motion, adapted the frames, and built some of the components. Then I realised that the gearbox I had planned wouldn’t fit, so while I was waiting for a new one to arrive I started to re-work a much older Nucast kit.

I had had doubts about the accuracy of this kit (at least as I had first built it), but after a putting it into a glass of paint stripper, I was pleased to find that the basic dimensions (especially boiler diameter) seem to be correct. I’m working to a Beattie drawing from RM, and a drawing reproduced from ‘The Engineer’ of 1887 reproduced in Ken Hoole’s ‘Illustrated History of NER Locomotives’. This drawing, which scales to 7.5mm to the foot, is of course of the original compound locomotive, with Joy gear, of which more later. The Nucast kit will be superheated with Stephenson gear, and having started the ‘works’ for the earlier loco, I decided to try and see if the same techniques would work with this one.

Three weeks (and a lot of fiddling later) here are the results.
Post_02.JPG
The basic idea is to make a sleeve for the centre axle (the driven one on the prototype) with two eccentrics, one on each side. These were soldered up out of brass tube I had in stock, 4mm and 7.5mm OD respectively. There are two large washer plates inside the eccentrics and in the gap between them is a hole drilled through the sleeve and through the axle. A locating pin can then be used to fix one to the other.
Post_01.JPG
Connecting rods were then made up from brass, with an effective ‘eccentric strap’ to fit onto the axle sleeve. (The lower parts in the photograph.) This means that as the axle rotates, the rods have 3.5mm of backward and forward movement, this being the difference between the centre of rotation of the axle and the eccentric. For connecting rods this is obviously cheating. The scale movement should be 8mm, and they should bear onto a crank not an eccentric. However, my micro-engineering skills are not up to making a crank axle, whereas my chosen technique only demands bench tools and a little patience!

More properly driven by same eccentrics, two other rods (correctly the Forward Eccentric Straps) were made up in the same way. These have forked ends, and a short rod representing the Lifting Links are riveted (loosely to allow movement) inside the fork.

The trickiest part to make was the Reversing Bar arrangement, which was made out of more brass tube, rod, and sheet. The frames need considerable work as well, with a new motion plate with slots supporting the end of the connecting rods, and a dummy cylinder back plate. This last is in the wrong place, but this was dictated by the rest of the kit. It does allow slide bars, and even (and these are simple to make and very tricky to fit) a representation of crossheads.

Well, you can see the result, if you can interpret my photography.
Post_03.JPG
I have left out the Backward Extension Straps, the Expansion Links, and the Piston Rods. Obviously the Forward Extension Straps and the Connecting Rods should not have the same centre of rotation on the axle.

(There is also the offset bend in one of the straps is more pronounced in the photograph than I had realised – and no I’m not going to dismantle the whole thing to straighten it. It will only be visible from directly underneath anyway!)

However the result is moving components under the boiler, although you do have to watch closely to see them. You can even see the crossheads shuttling two and fro between the front splashers.

Most of what is left to do is conventional white metal kit assembly, although I will have to make a representation of the Piston Valves between the frames at the front.
Post_04.JPG
So, when I’ve finished this loco, I can revert to the Slide Valve engine, and I think there will be more obvious movement with that one. (Except that I used the motor I’d planned for that one on the Piston Valve version – so it may have to wait until I can afford another Mashima can motor.)

Anyway, after all that I thought that other people might like to see this technique. It is adaptable for any other internal motion, and would be really good for a loco with outside cylinders, internal Stephenson valve gear, and a small enough boiler pitched high enough to give a good view. Anyone fancy re-working an O4?

(Apologies again for my very limited photography!)
ten ten
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Re: Make do and Mend - Now with added Eccentrics

Post by ten ten »

Lovely work-and shows the visual improvement of seeing motion between the frames rather than the usual empty space-and have it working as well, I salute you !
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