Make do and Mend - Inspecting on Six Wheels

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drmditch
LNER P2 2-8-2
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Re: Make do and Mend - Now with added Internal Motion

Post by drmditch »

Tender short circuiting problem solved. Loco running well and hauling trains up my gradients!

Next time I'll make sure both loco and tender run properly together before adding all the brake gear!
drmditch
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Re: Make do and Mend - Now with added Internal Motion

Post by drmditch »

J21 complete (apart from some annoying very small paint defects that only show up when you take a photograph!)
Post_12.JPG
Short circuits resolved, and it runs very nicely. The Mashima 1024 seems to give all the power it needs.
Post_13.JPG
I like the way fire-irons make the tender seem properly in use.
earlswood nob
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Re: Make do and Mend - Now with added Internal Motion

Post by earlswood nob »

Afternoon all
I'm guessing , but are the red items under the boiler, level with the dome, the internal motion?
I do like the J21, in my humble opinion it was one of the great classes of LNER locos.
Approx 10% of the NER fleet was a J21, and they seemed to last forever.
Earlswood nob
drmditch
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Re: Make do and Mend - Now with added Internal Motion

Post by drmditch »

I'm guessing , but are the red items under the boiler, level with the dome, the internal motion?
Ah -someone has noticed!

Actually the red things most visible in the recent photographs are the Counterweights on the rear side of the Reversing Bar that runs transversely across the locomotive. This is the rod that is partially rotated by the Reversing Rod moved by the Quadrant Gear in the cab. (And that is in place on this model as well.)
On the front side of the Reversing Bar are the brackets which support the pivots at the top ends of the Lifting Links. The bottom end of these should be pivoted on the Expansion Links - but on this model they are connected directly to the Forward Extension Straps which are (correctly) driven by Eccentrics on the driving axle.

Because I cheated, the Connecting Rods are moved by the same Eccentrics but they do move the Cross Heads to and fro along the Slidebars

I think I explained some of this earlier in this thread, even if the close up pictures weren't very good.

When the loco is running, if you look closely in a good light, you can see the Lifting Links, Forwards Extension Straps, Connecting Rods, and Cross Heads all moving, but you do need to look closely and have a good light!

The Counterweights, Reversing Bar and Reversing Rod do not move, because the Loco has (I hope) been set in forward gear, although I may have got this wrong. If I am then the Counterweights should be below footplate level and much less visible. I did consider making the reversing arrangements operable - but fortunately decided to preserve what is left of my sanity and refrain from doing so!

I'm sure that someone with more knowledge of Stephenson valve gear can tell me what I've got wrong!

(NB - I'm fairly sure from colour photographs and the preserved examples that the Counterweights were/are painted red - which is as well, because it's nice to have something obviously visible!)
jwealleans
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Re: Make do and Mend - Now with added Internal Motion

Post by jwealleans »

Are you bringing this with you next Monday evening, David? I shall bring my camera if so.
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Re: Make do and Mend - Now with added Internal Motion

Post by jwealleans »

We were very pleased to welcome David and a collection of interesting locos and stock to Ormesby Hall last night. Here they are being run round Corfe - less appropriate than Pilmoor, but the operating well is larger and it's easier to take photographs. I was let down by my camera batteries, but I did manage a few shots which I hope you like:

Image

O4/8 (I'm told), done in the same manner as Graeme King's, mixture of O4 and B1.

Image

Collection of North Eastern heavy haulage, two of David's (DJH Q7, Alexander Q6) alongside our NuCast Q6.

Image

Comparison of the two Q6s showing just how dimensionally challenged the NuCast model (to the rear) is.

Image

The J21 shown just a little way back upthread. It ran really nicely although we didn't overextend it.

Image

.. and this is what you wanted to see - the waggly bits. You have to look quite hard, but they do move in a convincing manner. Of course, he's quite mad, you know......

Thanks to David for taking the time and trouble to bring these down for our entertainment. Even the 7mm fraternity were impressed.
Last edited by jwealleans on Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Make do and Mend - Now with added Internal Motion

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

That there O1 is an O4/8 tha' knows.

Dave has a nice family of "unsung hero" locos by the look of it. For my information, as a non-expert in North Eastern matters, which is the correct scale Q6 and which is the NuCast item?
Most subjects, models and techniques covered in this thread are now listed in various categories on page1

Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.
jwealleans
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Re: Make do and Mend - Now with added Internal Motion

Post by jwealleans »

Post edited.
earlswood nob
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Re: Make do and Mend - Now with added Internal Motion

Post by earlswood nob »

Afternoon all
I thought somebody must spot the O1 with internal valve gear, so I didn't bother. I was more interested in the shortage of boiler on the Nucast Q6. I really must do something about mine, but if I get the Alexander Q6 (and it looks a lovely model), what do I do with the Nucast Q6?
1) Make a new boiler and convert it into a Q5
2) Try and lengthen the boiler (sounds too difficult)
3) Make a new cab and convert it into a Q5/2

(1) & (3) will need a new tender, so it looks like a 0-3 defeat.

Earlswood nob

P.S. I suppose I could make the boiler even shorter and end up with a J27, but that also would need a new tender.
drmditch
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Re: Make do and Mend - Now with added Internal Motion

Post by drmditch »

That there O1 is an O4/8 tha' knows.
That wasn't me - I did say it was an 04/8! I was going to make an 01 in the same way until Hornby produced theirs!
For my information, as a non-expert in North Eastern matters, which is the correct scale Q6 and which is the NuCast item?
3418 is my Q6, made from a Dave Alexander kit. The dimensions check to:-
A- drawing in K Hoole 'Illustrated History of NER Locomotives' - one of my 'bibles'.
B- J Joseph drawing from RM Modeller September 2003
C- dimensions in RCTS etc.

The Nucast Q6 appears to have a boiler which is too thin, and possibly too short. It also has a strange tender. Is it just coincidence that the (incorrect) tender appears to be identical to the one DJH supplied for the Q7? (before I modified it.)

I was suspicious of the J21 mouldings until I dismantled them and checked them. There is an interesting post higher up in this thread about the gentleman who made the original, and apparently accurate, masters for the J21. Do you think Nucast might have sourced the Q6 from a different maker?

We didn't measure the Nucast Q6 boiler, but if it is 22m dia (as suspected) then it's too fat for a Q5 - which according the drawing in Hoole should be 5' and 1/2" over the 'outside clothing'!

For a Q6 and a Q7 it should be 5'6" + the distance to the outside of the 'clothing' plates. ArthurK said earlier in this thread that this is 5' 9 and 1/2" on the GA for the Q7, which represents 23.167mm - or as I modelled it 23.5mm

I'm sure that more recent kits are much more accurate, but my view now is that a kit may make a useful base for a model, but that it is always a good idea to research as much as possible. Fortunately for the area I model there is excellent published information and even working examples! I do recognise of course that the Q6/Q7/J21 as preserved are not necessarily in the condition that they were in my chosen period, and have allowed for that in the models.

However, all this has made me realise that I may have the major ingredients for a Q5/1 - without spending much money!
earlswood nob
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Re: Make do and Mend - Now with added Internal Motion

Post by earlswood nob »

G'day all esp DRM
The Nucast Q6 is the correct length for a Q5 (or Q5/2), so would only need a piece of tubing for the boiler, new spectacle plate, chimney and dome.
The major problem is possibly the chimney which is slightly taller than the J27 or Q6, these are probably available from Dave Alexander. I don't know if its possible to saw a Q6 chimney in half, and solder back together with a washer in the middle.

A suitable tender is available from Dave Alexander.

Earlswood nob
Horsetan
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Re: Make do and Mend - Now with added Internal Motion

Post by Horsetan »

...... and this is what you wanted to see - the waggly bits. You have to look quite hard, but they do move in a convincing manner. Of course, he's quite mad, you know.......
Madness is a virtue.
earlswood nob
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Re: Make do and Mend - Now with added Internal Motion

Post by earlswood nob »

Genius is but one step from madness
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tomburnham
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Re: Make do and Mend - Now with added Internal Motion

Post by tomburnham »

Hi,

The Nucast kit of the Q6 does indeed make a good basis for conversion to a Q5 as the footplate length is almost correct and the cab position is the required distance from the rear wheel. As the smoke box diameter of the Q5, at 5' 8", is virtually the same as that of the Q6 the chimneys were identical but a larger dome is required for the 5' 0" overall boiler diameter of the Q5.

Tom.
earlswood nob
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Re: Make do and Mend - Now with added Internal Motion

Post by earlswood nob »

Good morning all esp Tom
The info on the Q6 to Q5 is very interesting.
I have looked at my drawings and the Q5 smokebox has a much greater difference to the boiler diameter than the Q6.
There is only 2 inches difference in the chimneys, which would hardly be noticeable.
The Q5 dome is the same height as that on early J26/7 boilers (diag 57). I hope Dave Alexander does those.
So it would just be a piece of tubing with a wrapper to represent the smokebox. The smokebox doors are the same size, so that does not need changing.
There will have to be a change of tender, Dave Alexander again.
It look like the Q6 will have to go in the paintstripper pot, followed by boiling water to melt the solder.
I'll put that on my roundtuit list (getting ever longer).
Earlswood nob
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