My Workbench - Potters Bar and South Mimms

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Manxman1831
NER C7 4-4-2
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Re: My Workbench - Potters Bar and South Mimms

Post by Manxman1831 »

Hi Phil,

From what I recall from the Bachmann C1 thread and talking with my dad, the DJH kits have a slightly longer coupled wheelbase than prototype to allow for the extra flange depth of the Romford wheels. As an alternative for the D11/13 motor, I'd probably go with a Mashima 1624 for sheer grunt, or a 1024 for speed - either of which could be mounted to a multistage gearbox, possibly 53:1 from Branchlines or similar. Deciding which axle to drive off will dictate how the motor is mounted and in what position - I think the kits were designed to be driven off the leading axle so you might need to open up the boiler to fit the motor/gearbox combination - depending upon which you go for.
Brian

Anything weird or unusual will catch my interest, be it an express or locomotive

I'm also drawn to the commemorative, let's hope Bachmann will produce 6165 Valour.
Phil Brighton
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:07 pm

Re: My Workbench - Potters Bar and South Mimms

Post by Phil Brighton »

Thanks for the info - looking at the DJH site they recommend, for the new kit I don't know how different it is, a 50:1 gearbox and a AM8 MASHIMA M1224D motor so that fits with your advice. Are two stage gearboxes worth the extra money in your opinion?
mick b
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: My Workbench - Potters Bar and South Mimms

Post by mick b »

Mashima 1024 has more power than a 12 and will need less boiler cutting. High Level Models do some excellent boxes their is a Gerbox planner on their web site. They are the cheapest for the motors I have found as well.

Mashima motor specs

http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/mashima.htm

High level

http://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/
Manxman1831
NER C7 4-4-2
Posts: 877
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:06 pm
Location: Shiny Sheffield

Re: My Workbench - Potters Bar and South Mimms

Post by Manxman1831 »

Are two-stage gearboxes worth the extra? I think so, but it depends a lot on the model you want to put one in. If the model is large enough to fit one, I'd say go for it. HOWEVER, they can be finnicky little things, and if they go together awkwardly this can be a sign that it will run tight and no amount of lubrication will free it up. If you are used to single-stage 'boxes, stick with them, unless you fancy trying a multi'.

I've only ever built three multi's - the first one ran loose and tightened up to the point it needed replacing, and the replacement has ran smoothly for a number of years. The second one I built half-following the instructions, but is running smoothly still. The sticking point for me was the intermediate gearing - the instructions advise to put this together before fitting into the 'box. I did this with the first one and found that I needed to open up the hole on one side to allow the bearing to slip into place, but this gave too much slack on the axle. What I did for the second and third attempt was to slip the bearings into place and secure them, slide the gears onto the axle, before easing them apart slightly to put a small drop of superglue between them and squeeze them together.
Brian

Anything weird or unusual will catch my interest, be it an express or locomotive

I'm also drawn to the commemorative, let's hope Bachmann will produce 6165 Valour.
drmditch

Re: My Workbench - Potters Bar and South Mimms

Post by drmditch »

Excuse me for jumping in on this thread. I have six two-stage gearboxes with Mashima motors running at the moment, all Comet. I use as big a motor as I can get in the model, and I arrange current collection from as many wheels as possible using the tender where there is one. They all run very well, and provide excellent slow speed running. Five went together very easily. One however was very jerky for a while, despite dismantling, checking and running in twice. The locomotive (a Bachmann J39 reworked to take a Comet chassis) was put to one side for a while. When it came out again a few weeks later at first it still ran badly, but then suddenly it started running smoothly and well!

Just goes to show that engineering in this scale is difficult to get precise!

The most recent one is my J21 with Mashima 1024,with Comet GB5 and 50:1 extender. Pictures ......... here...

I've followed Comet's advice and left the intermediate gear freely rotating on it's axle, with just a drop of superglue to hold the axle in place in the gearbox frame. (When installed in the loco there usually isn't much space for the intermediate axle to move sideways anyway.)

I have got one High Level unit to build at the moment. I'll report on how I get on with it when I've got through my house move!
earlswood nob
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 1666
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Location: Surrey

Re: My Workbench - Potters Bar and South Mimms

Post by earlswood nob »

Good morning all on a beautiful sunday in Surrey
Most of my locos are now fitted with two stage gearboxes.
When I got back into modelling a few years ago, I used Comet gearboxes and was pleased with the result.
I, also, fitted a NuCast J21 with a Mashima 1024 driving through a Comet GB5 with 50:1 extender on the rear axle. It runs well. There was only just enough room for the motor gearbox combination fitting.
Later, I replaced a MW005 and 50:1 Romford gears in a Little Engines T1, with a Mashima 1628 and High Level Loadhauler Plus 108:1 gearbox. The slow running cannot be beaten. It runs at less than walking pace and will shove most things backwards.
I now choose High Level gearboxes in preference, as they have a greater choice of ratios.
I have a Nucast J25 to build, ans will use a Mashima 1024 with a High Level 54:1 gearbox. It will be interesting to compare it with the J21 mentioned above.

Earlswood nob
Phil Brighton
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
Posts: 298
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Re: My Workbench - Potters Bar and South Mimms

Post by Phil Brighton »

Thanks for all the replies guys. It does seem most do use the high level gear boxes and that is the way to go. Must however be disciplined and finish the D2 before starting the C1. I expect Bachmanns will arrive well before mine.
Phil Brighton
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:07 pm

Re: My Workbench - Potters Bar and South Mimms

Post by Phil Brighton »

D2 and outer suburban train for it to pull pretty much finished. Track laying is progressing as well - only a few more points to lay.
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2002EarlMarischal
LNER A3 4-6-2
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Re: My Workbench - Potters Bar and South Mimms

Post by 2002EarlMarischal »

Loco coaches and track all looking good! :)
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Atlantic 3279
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: My Workbench - Potters Bar and South Mimms

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

I shoe-horned a 14mm wide can into my DJH C1, arranged almost upright (leaning backwards slightly) and totally out of view in the firebox. Drive is by single stage 40:1 open Romford gears, the worm sitting behind and slightly below the centre line of the rear coupled wheels. It did require a bit of frame nibbling and minor reorganisation of spacers, but I adjusted the mesh with great care and it runs very smoothly. Driving off that axle allowed me to have a complete boiler bottom visible between the splashers, and it allowed me to let the leading coupled wheels rock in hornblocks (yes, even in OO) nicely adding to the loco's ability to pick up current continuously, to hold its feet, and to glide rather than lurch too much on the rails.

Watch out for problems with DJH's overly simplistic suggestion for suspending the carrying wheels at the rear of the loco. I couldn't get it to work satisfactorily at all. It may be okay if you only expect the loco to run forwards, pulling a light load, or to reverse through smooth generous curves unbroken by rail joints and point blades, but.....
If you spring the wheels stiffly as per DJH instructions then they will carry a fair bit of weight which is of some help in keeping them on the rails for reverse running (despite the fact that they don't "steer" at all) but it robs the loco of grip when running forwards as the forces involved in pulling a load "tilt" the locos effective weight onto the rear carrying wheels instead of the coupled wheels where it is needed.
If you fit sloppier springs you get better forward traction but the wheel flanges then climb up over any awkward rail "notches" when setting back through curves, especially crossovers.
I replaced the DJH arrangement with a pony truck (on a longish arm) discretely constructed within the trailing frames. Because this steers correctly, keeping the flanges in line with the track, it can float on minimal springing (or just carry a little piece of lead ballast of its own) and the wheels track perfectly, taking little or no load off the drivers even when the loco has to pull hard. With a boiler virtually full of lead and the chassis as described it hauls 21 coaches, including some kit builds, around my loft layout and might handle more with careful driving. That incudes some brass kits by the way.....
Most subjects, models and techniques covered in this thread are now listed in various categories on page1

Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.
Phil Brighton
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
Posts: 298
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Re: My Workbench - Potters Bar and South Mimms

Post by Phil Brighton »

Thanks for the detail on the C1 - sounds a bit daunting but very helpful. I have seen the video of yours on YouTube. Certainly looks to run very nicely indeed.
earlswood nob
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: My Workbench - Potters Bar and South Mimms

Post by earlswood nob »

Evenin' all
It seems that you don't need a P2, Atlantic 3279, as you've got an Atlantic that will haul 21 coaches. I seem to remember that you also have a D10 with similar performance.
Who needs eight coupled locos?

Earlswood nob
Phil Brighton
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:07 pm

Re: My Workbench - Potters Bar and South Mimms

Post by Phil Brighton »

Not much progress on the layout or beginning the C1. I have been doing something rather more straightforward (until painting at least) in the time I can grab.

Great British Locos Mallard body, Hornby NRM Flying Scotsman chassis and tender to become apple green A4
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Handrails, Lamp Irons, Single Chimney (live steam version), cab doors added and nameplate removed.
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Phil Brighton
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:07 pm

Re: My Workbench - Potters Bar and South Mimms

Post by Phil Brighton »

GBL Mallard how now become Kestrel.
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will5210
GNSR D40 4-4-0
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Re: My Workbench - Potters Bar and South Mimms

Post by will5210 »

Very nice!
Will

My LNER 1930s West Highland Workbench
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My Blog
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