Paul's workbench

This forum is for the discussion of railway modelling of the LNER and its constituent companies.

Moderators: 52D, Rlangham, richard, Tom F, Atlantic 3279, Colombo, Blink Bonny, Saint Johnstoun

nzpaul
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:48 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Paul's workbench

Post by nzpaul » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:05 pm

This might be a bit naughty but, I've cropped the relevant part out of the original Ghostude picture showing the inspiration for this chop chop job.
It seems to be an all 3rd class corridor twin, no idea re the Diag number or even if a real one existed but given it was built by Larry Goddard I guess it would have been researched??? The other picture is in M Harris "Gresley's Coaches" page 55, caption claims its a corridor twin and I can see 1st and 3rd labelling on the doors, so the composite idea is not too far fetched.
LG Twin.jpg
Cheers
Paul

jwealleans
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 3244
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:46 am

Re: Paul's workbench

Post by jwealleans » Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:36 am

That's a GN twin - the droplights above the doors are a dead giveaway. I don't know the GN diagrams well enough by heart to say that it's genuine, but I'd be inclined to suppose it is.
given it was built by Larry Goddard I guess it would have been researched?
A dangerous assumption. Professional kitbuilders build what the customer specifies, not necessarily what is right. I've seen models signed by Larry which have errors, I assume because he's been told to build the kit as is rather than correct it.

Fundamentally, there might be errors but basically that pair almost certainly existed, so you're probably safe to use them as a guide.

2512silverfox
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:46 pm

Re: Paul's workbench

Post by 2512silverfox » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:04 am

The GN twins were as follows: twin compo, twin first and pantry twin. I can look up the diagram numbers but they are not to hand at present. These should not be confused with the standard outline twin thirds, two of which together with a short compo, made up the five coach flush sided sets operated by the GN and GC sections of the LNER.

Attached is a photo of a scratch built pantry twin in 4mm scale. https://www.lner.info/forums/download/f ... w&id=19459
Attachments
GNCompTwin2.jpg

jwealleans
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 3244
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:46 am

Re: Paul's workbench

Post by jwealleans » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:19 am

I thought I had an image of Graeme King's steel 5 set we run on Grantham, but I can't locate it. Here is a Tony Wright picture of one of the twins running on his layout.

earlswood nob
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 1533
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:23 am
Location: Surrey

Re: Paul's workbench

Post by earlswood nob » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:40 am

Good morning all from a damp Surrey,

This thread about the vestibuled twins is very interesting.

Is there any chance, Paul, of you detailing your methodology in producing the twin?

From Harris's book, they ran as five coach units, with the composite in the middle.

From burning the midnight oil last night, it looks like the third can be produced from a Hornby composite allied to the brake, and the brake produced from two brakes, with the composite from a composite allied to the first class compartments from the left over portion of the brake.

Now to get back to fitting grab-rails and door handles to a Kirk Quad. It's very tedious, but makes a great improvement.

Earlswood nob

2512silverfox
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:46 pm

Re: Paul's workbench

Post by 2512silverfox » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:31 pm

If you can get your hands on a copy of HCD Vol 1, there is a 4mm drawing of the twin third and compo which Michael Harris mentions, together with a fine photographs of the ersatz teak finish which was applied to those sets. Pages 42 and 44.

User avatar
Atlantic 3279
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:51 am
Location: 2850, 245

Re: Paul's workbench

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:26 pm

I can't find any GOOD photograph of my 1935 five car steel panelled set, but here's 3/5ths of it, including one of the twins and the short, "first rich" composite that runs in the middle:
STA75229 phoenix 1935 steel panelled set.jpg
Bachmann A2 to A2/3: from my thread in Model Railways page 56 to 83, also

Hornby A3 to A1/1 Great Northern: from page 84, in resin from page 108.


Apologies for so many missing images - see page 1 for reasons & possible solution.

nzpaul
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:48 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Paul's workbench

Post by nzpaul » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:43 am

earlswood nob wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:40 am
Good morning all from a damp Surrey,

This thread about the vestibuled twins is very interesting.

Is there any chance, Paul, of you detailing your methodology in producing the twin?

Yes, I think I can...... So far it has really only involved cutting approximately 60mm off the articulated end of each coach. I've made up a jig from thin plywood that the coach body fits into and assists with making a square cut, it's a bit like a simplified home made mitre box. Then I've blanked off the open end with plastic sheet cut to the profile of the coach.
Once the body has been cut the chassis and interior unit are cut to suit. As previously mentioned the existing trussing was cut off and then refitted 7mm closer the outer end. I use an Atlas super saw for most of the cuts that require minimal blade width but some razor saw blades would be almost identical. Next I moved one door and window on the corridor side of one coach (the one with the white stripe near the inner end) again using the atlas saw so not to loose too much plastic from the cut, once re positioned this needed a strip of plastic to fill the gap.
As Graeme mentioned I'm still left with some weird looking door positioning on the compartment side of one coach but I'm working on a solution that will remove the awkwardness, but it wont be a perfect fix, I'll post some pictures soon of that bit. I'm fairly sure my modelling philosophy has come through fairly clear with my ramblings, I'm quite happy if I can capture character as opposed to chasing perfect fidelity, I doubt anything I build would sit well among those models built by GK, JW, Mick and all, but then I don't imagine they'll ever have to. The only Forum member whose seen my "creations" in person is Graeme Leary whom I'm looking forward to catching up with at some stage as he's just got back from a trip to the UK. (hint hint)
I'll detail things a little better in future posts about this articulated set, I've just sorted out the articulated bogie and that works well, it's an agricultural solution but then most of my ideas are.

Thanks for that photo by the way Mr King, hopefully I'll end up with something a little bit like that.
I've also been on the hunt for a copy of Historic Carriage Drawings for a while, one will turn up sooner or later.

Cheers
Paul

nzpaul
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:48 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Paul's workbench

Post by nzpaul » Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:45 am

Hi All
The bogie articulation was made up using finishing nails fitted to the coaches and holes drilled into the bogie, basically a copy of the Mailcoach Coronation set up but a bit stronger thanks to a metal pin, it seems to function well and the set can happily negotiate 20" radius curves.
Twin_3.jpg
The teak finish is where I've been a bit more experimental with these, the base coat is the same Railmatch Teak as my older coaches but I've added orange to the mix. So, teak now made up of Base coat, thin orange coat, rough dark brown then very light yellow highlights. I think it looks really nice, the orange definitely changes things a bit, they look newer perhaps, not sure ,but still fit in with the older coaches I've made.
twin_5.jpg
twin_6.jpg
Lastly, I've finally named Midlothian......all done with individual 1mm letters from Fox Transfers. Sadly they don't make shaded letters that small so I picked a font that was a little "fatter" than Gill, it's not perfect but it'll have to do.
c11_33.jpg
Cheers
Paul

Atso
LNER V2 2-6-2 'Green Arrow'
Posts: 1125
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:58 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Paul's workbench

Post by Atso » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:24 am

That arctic set looks great Paul but I absolutely love Midlothian! 8)

Great work! What's next?
Steve
Atso-Cad Models
www.atso-cadmodels.co.uk

nzpaul
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:48 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Paul's workbench

Post by nzpaul » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:42 pm

Next??? :shock:
Well I've still got that GEM J36 to sort out, after looking promising to begin with it's turned into a bit of a train wreck.......yea, I know :roll: ..... so I'm contemplating a complete overhaul using a NBR Developments chassis.
Started on a Nu-Cast P2 last week which I'm hoping will be a fairly straight forward build. You could question the wisdom of building the kit when an adaption of the Hornby model using GK bits would probably yield a better result, but the kit only cost me the equivalent of about £25 so I couldn't leave it alone. I'll post progress sooner or later.
After that I'm going to try and cross a C1 with an A1 using a K's C1 kit and Hornby cab, to build booster fitted C1 #4419, I have question relating to this one but I'll ask for advise closer to the start of construction.
Then.... a SE Finecast K3, an upgrade to a Hornby J83 ,a few Kirk coaches and a handful of Parkside wagons to assemble, I think that's it.
Oh, and now that I have a room specially for the job, there's the small matter of a 6x4 metre double deck layout, but that's in the 20 year plan.

Cheers
Paul

earlswood nob
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 1533
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:23 am
Location: Surrey

Re: Paul's workbench

Post by earlswood nob » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:43 am

Good morning all

I, too, have a Kay's C1 put aside for conversion to 4419.

It looks like the cab sides are the same as the A1/3 with long cut-outs. I will have those spare from a SEF A3, when I get around to building it.

Alternately, one can purchase the cab sides from SEF, who do a very good spare pats service.

I am planning to build a new chassis for 4419, which will be a virtual 2-6-2, with the rearmost bogie axle a rigid part of the chassis. This will enable me to get this axle closer to the foremost driving axle.

Ivatt had no thought of us modellers when he designed the C1, as the axle spacing is so tight.

Earlswood nob

nzpaul
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:48 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Paul's workbench

Post by nzpaul » Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:53 am

Hi All
If anyone's interested I've done a short video of Midlothian running on my clubs layout. Please excuse the ugly van behind the tender I had coupling issues and that made things work.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=beSVVeFuR9g
Only have my phone to do video so quality is not the best, sorry.

Cheers
Paul

mick b
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 3003
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 4:43 pm

Re: Paul's workbench

Post by mick b » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:27 am

Running nicely !!

nzpaul
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:48 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Paul's workbench

Post by nzpaul » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:14 am

Thanks Mick, it's worked out ok I think. A few more hours running and it should quiet down a bit more, I'm nervous of the robustness of the cast rods but so far no sign of any problems. The 4 coaches in that video were a reasonable load thanks to the weight of the 12 wheelers. Loco is good for much more but I don't want to push my luck on such a new mechanism.

Cheers
Paul

Post Reply