GCR conversions

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Manxman1831
NER C7 4-4-2
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Re: GCR conversions

Post by Manxman1831 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:08 pm

I looked at doing something similar (albeit in my head and not on paper), and came to the conclusion that the only sticking point would be the lengthy piston rod and separate slidebars from the piston block. Otherwise, I'm certain a scratchbuilt cab sidesheeting would be easy enough, as would the altered front-end running plate.
Brian

Anything weird or unusual will catch my interest, be it an express or locomotive

I'm also drawn to the commemorative, let's hope Bachmann will produce 6165 Valour.

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Atlantic 3279
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: GCR conversions

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:20 pm

jwealleans wrote:I'm not sure I'd buy shoes from Mike Clark - can you imagine what the laces might be like?
They'd be no good for the mass of kids :roll:


Regarding B2 to B3, that's on my to-do list as well. There's an old article in RM (by John Pepper if memory is any good) dealing with production of Caprotti Early Haig in this way, and those with access to the GCRS publication "Forward" will find coverage of B2 conversion to a standard B3 in one of the back-numbers. I believe Woodcock29 knows all the details.....
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earlswood nob
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: GCR conversions

Post by earlswood nob » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:06 pm

Hi Manxman
The slidebars motion bracket is the difficult bit. I'm thinking of fixing a cylinder endplate to the front of the steps and soldering the slidebars to that, then fixing (screwing preferable) the whole assembly to the top of the chassis, as one does with motion brackets on simpler locos.
It's a dream at the moment, but I do have a sheet of 0.25mm brass in my odds 'n' ends box.
Earlswood Nob

earlswood nob
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Re: GCR conversions

Post by earlswood nob » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:51 pm

Evenin' all

Well it’s possible! This afternoon after finishing the brake gear on the Fish engine that I’m building, I spent an hour experimenting with a potential B3 slidebar arrangement.
I cut a piece of brass sheet (0.25mm) and cut one end to shape with a piercing saw to represent the steps/slidebar arrangement. I then took a cylinder end, which was spare from a set of Comet LMS cylinders, and soldered it to a length of 1.5mm square rod. This was then soldered to the steps backing. Then I reamed out the piston rod hole and soldered in a length of brass tubing. The tubing was then cut to length. Finally I took two small pieces of N/S fret oddments and soldered them into the slidebar slots in the cylinder ends.
This was all assembled using Carrs 145deg solder. When I do get around to having a go at a B3, I will use a higher melting point solder at first for the cylinder end, slidebars, and piston rod tube and finish with the 145 solder.
Now I’m looking for a Kays/Nucast B2 at the right price.
B3_crop5.jpg
Earlswood Nob

Manxman1831
NER C7 4-4-2
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Re: GCR conversions

Post by Manxman1831 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:28 pm

Nice
Brian

Anything weird or unusual will catch my interest, be it an express or locomotive

I'm also drawn to the commemorative, let's hope Bachmann will produce 6165 Valour.

Woodcock29
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
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Re: GCR conversions

Post by Woodcock29 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:48 am

Hello everyone

Atlantic is right I built Valour 21 years ago from a Ks B2. I wrote it up in the GCRS Journal Forward in No 123 of Spring 2000. I used old Triang Britannia cylinders set at an angle onto a new brass stretcher. The slidebar support blocks were laminated from plastic sheet which was filed to shape once the layers had well and truly hardened. The piston rod guide was made by inserting a piece of suitable sized brass tube into a hole in the front of the block. I used filed down pieces of N gauge rail for the slidebars - not sure I could actually draw this up in a sketch now as it is so long ago! The cross heads were Cavendish that I had in stock and the connecting rods were from a Crownline A3 valvegear fret with extra blocks soldered on to form the rectangular big ends. I used pieces of paper clip to form nice shiny piston rods. The cab sides are made from plastic sheet and I laminated layers of plastic sheet to extend the whitemetal roof. The chassis was extended to take the cylinders. The loco is fitted with a Portescap RG 4M1 as is my model of B2 City of Lincoln also shown below. The footplate was made up by re-jigging the curved whitemetal sections that I had to remove from the B2 footplate with a new plastic sheet section over the cylinders. The chimney is a cut done and slightly reshaped Craftsman A5 chimney. The dome I used is really not wide enough but it was all I had available as the one in the kit was too tall. On the B2 I tried to reduce the height of the Ks dome but this didn't work all that well as can be seen in the photo below.

Note according to my measurements the boiler is pitched about 2mm too low in the Ks B2 kit so it needs to be raised by this amount by fitting pieces of plastic sheet in relevant places along the bottom of the boiler casting.

With access to a lot more info these days and the recent study I have done on GC tenders for the D11/1 project I now realize the tender I built for Valour is wrong for my later 30s period - I should have simply built the Ks B2 tender as it was rather than try to make a self trimming tender from the Ks tender albeit still too narrow in the tank. I will now have to rebuild the top of the front end back to a standard 4000 gallon format! One thing that does improve the look of the Ks tender is to make new coping plates from brass strip and fit these instead of the thick cast ones at the top of the Ks tender sides - I did this on Valour as the sheets needed to be longer at the front end and should have done this on the B2 but that was built earlier.
Valour ps small.jpg
Valour
Valour slidebar support block.jpg
Valour slidebar support block
City of Lincoln ps small.jpg
City of Lincoln

Woodcock29

earlswood nob
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: GCR conversions

Post by earlswood nob » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:03 am

Good morning all
Thanks Woodcock for all the info on your build of the B2 & B3.
If I get anywhere near your superb models, I will be pleased.
Now I'll have to look for two B2's, as they are a great looking pair.
Earlswood Nob

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Saint Johnstoun
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Re: GCR conversions

Post by Saint Johnstoun » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:01 am

These are splendid models indeed! Although my railway interests are fairly catholic one has to admit that Robinson locos were amongst the best good lookers ever!

Still working on the table - have been distracted by other projects and jobs.

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Atlantic 3279
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Re: GCR conversions

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:30 am

Valour looked good in Forward, but those larger coloured pictures do far more justice to the model. Lovely!
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45609
GCR D11 4-4-0 'Improved Director'
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Re: GCR conversions

Post by 45609 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:06 am

Hi Woodcock,

I like those very much and it shows just what can be done with an old white metal kit. I'll be looking for my Forward #123 this evening for another read. Excellent!

Cheers....Morgan

45609
GCR D11 4-4-0 'Improved Director'
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Re: GCR conversions

Post by 45609 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:32 pm

Atlantic 3279 wrote:I've not been paying sufficient attention to the material you've already posted, have I? If you feel inclined to repeat the drawing exercise, it will be interesting to see the result and compare it with views of my new "ambiguous" 5mm high resin Gorton chimney.
Could you re-work the A5 chimney shape to D11 pattern using simple top pressure from one of those P4 brownshirt size 11 boots?
I've made some changes to the original 3-D model for the A5/1 chimney, but not with the boot! However, before I publish the drawing, I thought I would generate a simple reference list of the GCR loco class smokebox radius/diameter. It occurred to me that whilst the chimney rim profile might be a common size across the board the petticoat flare could change depending on which loco it was fitted to. I haven't included the smaller/earlier classes just yet and there is a bit more data to populate. I think I have info at home to complete the B2, D11/1, D10 and O4/7 but some assistance/confirmation on the remaining B's, L3 and Q4 would be gratefully received. My recollection is that all the big B classes were the same (B2, B3, B6, B7 and B8) which in turn was the same as the D10, D11/1 and L3. So far the conclusion is that there are only three smoke box diameters with the B5 being the odd man out.

EDIT: List replaced with updated version below

Cheers.....Morgan

P.S. That Wealleans fella is going to get himself into trouble soon. It's a good job I'm more of a P4 hippy than zealot isn't it? I wear flip flops..... :D
Last edited by 45609 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:26 pm, edited 4 times in total.

mossie
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
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Re: GCR conversions

Post by mossie » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:48 pm

The Isinglass drawing for the Q4, Gorton built engines only, gives a radius of 2' 9 3/4" ?, hard to read, for the smokebox. The L3 drawing from the same source gives the radius, as 3' 3/16" ?, also hard to read.

Hope this is of some help.

Regards

Richard

45609
GCR D11 4-4-0 'Improved Director'
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Re: GCR conversions

Post by 45609 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:24 pm

Hi Richard,

Thanks for the info on the Q4 and L3. Reference to my works drawings for the D10 and D11/1 show the smokebox radius to be 3'-0 5/16". I'm not going to split hairs over 1/8" in 4mm scale. What has surprised me is that the D10, D11/1 and L3 smokeboxes are 1mm smaller than the large B classes. I measured my Bachmann D11 with the calipers and it came out at 24.1mm

The Q4 is also interesting as it now shows that it matches the B5 smoke box radius. I need to read a bit more on the rebuilding of the B5s as it seems a quick look in the green book says that a 1'-3" (15in) chimney was used.

I've also managed to populate the other locos from my collection of drawings. The biggest of the lot is the Gresley rebuild O4/7.
GCR_smokebox_size_revA.png
Chimney drawings to follow shortly.

Cheers....Morgan
Last edited by 45609 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:56 pm, edited 4 times in total.

auldreekie
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
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Re: GCR conversions

Post by auldreekie » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:38 pm

Mmmmm. I built a Sir Sam Fay many years ago from a Ks kit, and I was until now quite chuffed with it......

Woodcock's, I think, is the dog's crown jewels.


auldreekie

45609
GCR D11 4-4-0 'Improved Director'
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Re: GCR conversions

Post by 45609 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:48 pm

OK...so here are the chimney drawings.
2013-02-28 17.5in_Modified_Gorton_Chimney.pdf
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2013-02-28 15in_Modified_Gorton_Chimney_TypA.pdf
(40.91 KiB) Downloaded 58 times
2013-02-28 15in_Modified_Gorton_Chimney_TypB.pdf
(38.98 KiB) Downloaded 69 times
Morgan

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