West End Workbench

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jwealleans
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Re: On my Workbench - before the Grouping.

Post by jwealleans » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:46 pm

Cheers, Rob. Pleased to see you back. I was asked at Hartlepool whether the Italian vans were some sort of kit (I forget the manufacturer). I've got a couple more on the back burner and still plans....

Still on a coaching theme, I started the next of these kits I want to complete over the weekend while it rained. I thought this might be marginally easier than the Peter K simply because more of it would be present and I'd have less to make. I was expecting to have to alter some of the components as I went along.

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It's a Jidenco GCR 60' Composite. Possibly the first thing, certainly the first coach, I bought on Ebay. I don't know how long it's been kicking around in the heap so I was determined to build it. It wasn't as bad as I might have feared, actually; the end profile matched perfectly to a drawing in Nick Campling's book and the sides, although 2mm too long, are slightly too long right along their length so everything is in the right place relative to everything else. It's gone together quite well - for once the roof was just a bit snug so a bit of filler will be required in the corners. I've had to move the solebars out to allow the bogies to pivot enough for 3' curves. The bogies are a fold up etch and look very frail and easily distorted to me. The sides are very easily distorted as well.

Just the trussing and undergear to fabricate and attach after a tedious evening tonight sweating vents and window bars into place. This will be grained when I get as far as painting it - can anyone tell me whether the graining on the upper panels was vertical (as you'd expect on a Gresley coach, for example) or horizontal? I'm assuming vertical but I'd rather find out now if I'm wrong.

This is almost ready for primer - just alarm gear and destination board holders to make up. Those vents from 51L really look the business.

Image
Last edited by jwealleans on Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Atlantic 3279
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Re: On my Workbench - before the Grouping.

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:20 am

The matchboard compo looks nice too and has the same bogies as my Jidenco Barnums. I believe that Dan Pinnock and/or Chris Parrish used to provide some nicer "3 dimensional" cast whitemetal GCR 10' bogies, but in either case that's not much help now is it? I've not done it, but I did think about at least cutting out the flat zig-zags and putting in some coiled wire to represent the springs.
Oddly enough, on the Barnums I had to move the solebars INWARDS from the apparently "Jidenco intended" position, otherwise it was impossible to model the inset end doorways correctly. Even with the inward shift, mine still seem to go around curves a shade under 3' rad.
That coach might give you an excuse to model an example of Robinson's "armoured coach ends, interlocking fenders and reserve stroke collision buffers".
If you are stuck I think I've got a sheet of home-made but passable small paper prints to portray the GCR frosted WC window with etched crest.
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Bill Bedford
LNER A3 4-6-2
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Re: On my Workbench - before the Grouping.

Post by Bill Bedford » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:07 am

jwealleans wrote: It's a Jidenco GCR 60' Composite. Possibly the first thing, certainly the first coach, I bought on Ebay. I don't know how long it's been kicking around in the heap so I was determined to build it. It wasn't as bad as I might have feared, actually; the end profile matched perfectly to a drawing in Nick Campling's book and the sides,

There is a problem with this kit. There should be two small windows and a panel between the third and fourth door from the right. There was a door in the corridor between the first and third compartments which needed a solid bit of side for the frame.
Just the trussing and undergear to fabricate

Camplings drawings of the underframe are in error too. There should be two visible v-hangers for the brakes, one on each side, both close to the battery boxes. The position of the v-hanger that Campling shows near the bogie is only correct for one end of dual fitted coaches. On these coaches the Westinghouse cylinder was fitted next to the battery boxes and the vacuum cylinders move outward to accommodate it..
This will be grained when I get as far as painting it - can anyone tell me whether the graining on the upper panels was vertical (as you'd expect on a Gresley coach, for example) or horizontal? I'm assuming vertical but I'd rather find out now if I'm wrong.
There should be some fine beading between the windows. The panels between the beading had the grain vertical, above and below the beading the grain was horizontal.
Those vents from 51L really look the business.

They look too high to me, I think the lower part of the 'ring' should just sit at roof level.

jwealleans
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Re: On my Workbench - before the Grouping.

Post by jwealleans » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:45 am

Thanks for that, Bill. I knew it was all going too smoothly...
There should be two small windows and a panel between the third and fourth door from the right.
Couldn't understand how I'd missed that until I looked at the Campling drawing and realised it's a composite one and doesn't show that part of this coach. I've looked at the outline drawing in Dow Vol. 3 and see what you mean. I'd have realised when I built the interior - or I'd have been scratching my head trying to work out what I'd done. It should be possible to make up a panel and inset it - after all the windows are 3/4 in place already.
There should be two visible v-hangers for the brakes
That did have me wondering, but I hadn't pinned down a photo which showed what I was looking for. I thought it was odd that there was only one vac cylinder on the drawing (and in the kit). So, looking at the drawing, they should be in the gap between vac tanks and battery boxes - with the V hanger innermost.
There should be some fine beading between the windows.
ROFLMAO. This is a Jidenco kit. I'll paint it in when I get that far.

I may have some of the vents set too high - my third hand was a bit unsteady holding the coach while I incinerated my second one soldering them in - but if correctly fitted they sit on a small projection on the base at a height such that the outer ring just touches the roof. That puts them a midge's proverbial over 2mm high and about matches the Isinglass drawing. They definitely don't look like the more flattened post-grouping version, which was what I was most concerned about.

wehf100
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Re: On my Workbench - before the Grouping.

Post by wehf100 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:04 pm

Looks great- Interesting to think that there aren't actually that many years between the 12-wheeler and the GCR carriage!!

I think underframe arrangement drawings can be got from HMRS drawings service.

The GCR panelling had a horizontal panel running above the windows, and as they had a lot of 'glass' for the side each window frame was made from beading. There was no panel as such seperating them. The remaining 'above-waist' panels had a vertical grain. That said, on most pictures (admittedly when new-'frontline' carriages) grain doesn't appear very apparent at all. I have seen some models of matchboard Robinson carriages finished with a 'checkerboard' effect to the matchboading- the real carriages wood work and varnishing seems to have been to a very high quality and consistent in colouring. Indeed, in some pictures it almost looks like brown paint!

looking great as always!

Will

jwealleans
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Re: On my Workbench - before the Grouping.

Post by jwealleans » Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:56 am

Dan Pinnock and/or Chris Parrish used to provide some nicer "3 dimensional" cast whitemetal GCR 10' bogies
They did and I tried to obtain some from Chris Parrish last year, but they never arrived. I'd like a set of Barnums but I'm inclined to wait for the moment. Tackling this kit hasn't endeared me to the prospect of the ex-Jidenco version. Adding the spring/axlebox castings last night has reduced the amount of swivel on the bogies even further, so I'm looking at raising them .5 mm and shaving a little off the top of the corner of each bogie. I may have to take a little off the bottom of the solebars as well but that's probably the final option.
on most pictures ... grain doesn't appear very apparent at all

Precisely the problem I had trying to decide in which direction it ran.

I've made a start on adding in the window - a brass backing strip and then I'll build it up to the same level as the coach side in plastikard. It'll be easier to shape and groove in the beading to match what's already there.

jwealleans
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Re: On my Workbench - before the Grouping.

Post by jwealleans » Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:20 pm

We've had a nice few days up here so I've been employed outdoors instead of hiding away in the workshop. I have had a crack at correcting this coach, though and here is progress so far:

Image

First step was to solder a strip of scrap brass behind the window to support the new panel. This is (deliberately) narrower than the final panel piece.

Image

20 thou plastikard panel piece filed to shape and stuck in to give the basic outline of the windows.

Image

Beading stuck in place (10 x 20 thou Evergreen strip) allowed to harden and then filed down to the right depth. A 5 thou piece of plastikard then added to give the raised panel section between the windows. Milliput added to fill in the etched panel lined which are no longer required. One corner piece snapped off when I was forming the curve in the corner of the window: this will have to be carved out of the Milliput once it's hardened. The left hand window isn't quite right either, as I can now see in the photo; I'll work on this some more once everything's hardened off again.
Last edited by jwealleans on Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Hucknall Central
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Re: On my Workbench - before the Grouping.

Post by Hucknall Central » Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:00 pm

Hello Jonathan
Have been following your thread for some months, and enjoying the diversity of your stock. The continental vans are a treat.
The sight of the Jidenco GC coach made me sit up and take notice :!: In my "to be built before I peg it" stock I have five matchboard corridors and three Barnums - all Jidenco. Just the time and (a little) courage needed to start them; I will continue to watch your progress. Having built over 100 PO wagons and the same again in all-company goods stock (the GC was predominantly freight in the 30s), it's time passenger stock came into force.
When will we see the Ferry Vans on the next Thurston video?
Well done.
Paul.

jwealleans
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Re: On my Workbench - before the Grouping.

Post by jwealleans » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:47 am

Morning Paul. Thank you for your kind words and I'm pleased to have incited you to post. Please put up a few pictures of your stock - the more the better as far as I'm concerned. There are more Continental vans on the way although I'm taking a bit of a break from them at the moment.

Should I ever build another Jidenco coach - unlikely unless I'm offered them very cheaply - I'd look to replace the bogies if possible and also brace the bottom of the sides with something. The brass is very thin and if you built them as designed - just two cross-pieces to support the bogies and (presumably) a removable roof to allow the interior to be fitted - they'd be unbelievably flimsy. The plastic roof is awful and best consigned to the bin.

It's been a nuisance having to make up this window section but it's also a reminder how useful this forum is and the benefit of having the expertise of someone like Bill B available. I'd have been much more peeved about having to alter it if it had already been painted.

I'm not sure there'll be any more Thurston videos - our Chairman (who shot the first two) used to make them as a hobby but has since had an enforced career change and is now a full time filmmaker. I suspect another version would be a bit of a busman's holiday for him.

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Re: On my Workbench - before the Grouping.

Post by Bill Bedford » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:28 am

jwealleans wrote: I'd look to replace the bogies if possible and also brace the bottom of the sides with something.
How many of you would want GC bogies?

jwealleans
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Re: On my Workbench - before the Grouping.

Post by jwealleans » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:45 am

Well, after I've avoided being trampled in the rush to reply, Bill... As far as I know there are no GC bogies available. Dan Pinnock used to do the 10'6" one, which would cover the Barnum and matchboard types you do and he also did the Parker one. Allen Doherty lists body etches for a set of those. I think Chris Parrish used to list an 8' bogie which came fro the clerestory kits he offered.

I'd be up for the 10'6" version and the Parker as a second choice. It might be worth seeing what interest there is from the GC Society as well.

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Re: On my Workbench - before the Grouping.

Post by Bill Bedford » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:44 am

jwealleans wrote:Well, after I've avoided being trampled in the rush to reply, Bill...
As you may have notices I've started to do wagon axleboxes & buffers as 3D prints. So over time I should be able to add bogie side frames to that range. I am likely to set it up so that these parts can be orded direct from the manufacturers.

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Re: On my Workbench - before the Grouping.

Post by Hucknall Central » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:09 am

Bill,
Reference GC bogies, I would have a need for a dozen pairs if they came to fruition, please.
Also, what is the availability of your coach (one-piece) couplings?
Paul

jwealleans
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Re: On my Workbench - before the Grouping.

Post by jwealleans » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:14 am

I've started to do wagon axleboxes & buffers as 3D prints
Is that how the axlebox/springs in the wagon kit I received last week were done?

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Re: On my Workbench - before the Grouping.

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:28 am

Sorry, I read Bill's offer last night but was too weary to reply!

Forgive me for sounding like the skinflint I am, but providing the bogies (or just sideframes) were reasonably inexpensive and easy to assemble and were an accurate representation both in terms of portrayal of features AND in terms of height so as not to create fitting problems (I believe the Chris P / Perseverence ones were too tall and had to be cut down to allow correct coach ride height and some freedom to move on curves), then I'd be interested initially in say four or so 10'6" bogies and six or more of the 8' Edwardian (1904 - 1907ish?) clerestory/suburban type.

I seem to remember that there may be slight complications with the 8' variety. At a glance some of the original London extension stock (much of it contractor built) rides on the same bogies but I recall seeing differences in photos, such as in the kind of transverse spring employed.
Most subjects, models and techniques covered in this thread are now listed in various categories on page1

Dec. 2018: Almost all images that disappeared from my own thread following loss of free remote hosting are now restored.

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