West End Workbench

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Nova
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Re: West End Workbench

Post by Nova » Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:35 pm

jwealleans wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:29 pm
Evergreen strip, MJT W irons and Archer rivet transfers. The axleboxes are 51L and he also does a Midland spring with J hanger which looks more like the NER fitting than an ordinary hanger would.

The van you've highlighted is an H & BR diagram although the panelling shouldn't be recessed. Mr. King has done that one as well and you'll find it overlaps with the NER van if you step back upthread just a little. I have some of the same started but languishing in a drawer.
Thank you, I'll definitely keep that in mind when I look to bulk up my fleet of wagons with pre-grouping designs. nice to know they're designs from two separate railways absorbed into the LNER
Coalby and Marblethorpe, my vision of an un-nationalised Great Britain in the 50s and 60s: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11905


36C Studeos, kits in 4MM scale: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11947

jwealleans
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: West End Workbench

Post by jwealleans » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:44 am

Been adding to the coal wagons for Grantham, hoping to withdraw some of the less authentic examples over the next few shows. These were in the main picked up at Wakefield, a whole bundle of Ian Kirk kits someone was selling. Some were also bought at Hartlepool as examples for my weathering demo which I then stripped and rebuilt. Small variations between manufacturers in things like height, plank scribing, axleboxes and the like are subtle, but the eye registers them and it breaks up what could be a blandly uniform rake of wagons.

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I also learned that Stephenson Clarke changed their livery in the later 1930s. Attractive though the red and grey is, having quite different colours also helps break down the uniformity. Transfers are from Powsides and they're no less of a trial to put on than they ever were.

jwealleans
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Re: West End Workbench

Post by jwealleans » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:20 pm

Grantham's next outing looms large as has been discussed elsewhere and so it's very much repairing and servicing time. I know some people do this immediately after a show - I tend to leave cleaning and servicing until just before the next one. Repairs I try to work through over the interval (I carry a notebook where they're entered during a show) but there are always things which are missed and come out when stock is inspected.

First up are coal loads for the new wagons. I almost always make these removable so they can be run full or empty.

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Then the repairs - I went through the carriage boxes this week tightening coupling screws and inspecting generally and found a few needing attention:

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This BFK has been moved between sets in a review of the carriage workings and needs a coupling at the other end. I hadn't fitted a captive nut at that end so one is being retrofitted now.

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The coupling on the RTP had been bent - looked as if it might have been dropped or run into very hard - so it had to be reshaped and resoldered.

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This is the BT from the triplet set and both gas tanks had come off. Rather than risk bubbling paintwork with a soldering iron I superglued them back on.

jwealleans
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Re: West End Workbench

Post by jwealleans » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:43 pm

Well, 30 or so locos to service for Grantham today, so perhaps predictably I spent the morning messing about with wagons.

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The LSWR van is the new Cambrian kit: I was demonstrating wagon building at Ormesby last weekend and this is the first vehicle I started there to be completed. One piece underframe and a decent fit all round, it doesn't take much building. Of perhaps more interest is the open, which is the Oxford Diecast one. I picked that up to see what they were like and found the faults which have already been discussed on other threads. Steve Pearce went through the necessary corrective modifications here. I can recommend his posts and have done pretty much exactly what he did here. Paint on the buffers is Humbrol 140 - 64 was nowhere near the colour they've chosen, 140 will do once weathered. If I buy any more they'll inevitably be renumbered and so probably repainted as well.

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The David Geen cattle van is done and weathered. The 3H open is one of the bag of wagons I brought away from Middlesbrough show and am still working my way through.

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Some of the SC wagons weathered as well. Pretty though they are, they need to be dirty. I will be leaving some of them pristine for the moment - as some of you may have gathered, I find myself demonstrating weathering at Warley this year and will use these in a 'before and after' display.

jwealleans
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Re: West End Workbench

Post by jwealleans » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:14 am

Well, I have to say I'm glad those are all done. I can't manage enough concentration to do more than one an evening.

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On balance, though, I'm pleased with the results and won't have to think quite so long about using Powsides lettering again. You certainly can't look much past them for a great many private owners.

Some of these will feature in the small display I'll be taking to Warley, as I mentioned. One other thing I'd like for that are 'before and after' weathered locomotives. I only have duplicates of a few locos and as this will be primarily a goods wagon display, the choice narrowed down even further. In the end it settled on the pair of Bachmann J39s, 1275 and 2696. These were tarted up for Barrow Hill all that time ago but have had nothing done to them since, not even real coal. They are nominally spare Grantham locos but always seem to end up being used (or they've developed a means of insinuating themselves onto shed over the weekend).

John Cockcroft did a detailing job on these way back when they first came out (BRM May 1995 and September 1998) and that was what I'd always had in mind for them both. So last night 2696 of Colwick became the first subject. This one will be more heavily weathered - there's a picture in the Arthur Cawston book we rely on so heavily of 1275 of Lincoln looking highly bulled up, so once 1275 has had the same detailing treatment it will be finished in a similar state.

I don't have the list of all the changes to hand, but you can see a number of them on the pictures.

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Shorter loco to tender coupling, new rainstrips on cab, new cab handrails, separate operating rod for drop grate, remove seam along top of boiler, injector pipework both sides, sander operating rods (not yet fitted). I shan't be remaking all the boiler bands - far too much likelihood of irredeemable damage - and at the moment I'm not going to replace the boiler handrails.

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There was a lot of work done on the tender in the original article. I had a spare tender top, from either a K3 or J39, which was much closer to the finished article and so I've used that. Some surgery was required on the chassis to make it fit, but it's on now. That has saved me much of the work to remake the front with the twin toolboxes (the original only had one). I will reuse the rear coal plate off the old tender as it bisects the filler dome where the newer one was forward of it.

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manna
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: West End Workbench

Post by manna » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:16 am

G'Day Gents

Interesting, haven't seen that article, but looking closely at the J39, I reckon it could be bashed into a J6.

manna
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.

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Atlantic 3279
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: West End Workbench

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:36 pm

Too big a boiler and too long a wheelbase, I suggest.
Bachmann A2 to A2/3: from my thread in Model Railways page 56 to 83, also

Hornby A3 to A1/1 Great Northern: from page 84, in resin from page 108.


Apologies for so many missing images - see page 1 for reasons & possible solution.

jwealleans
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Re: West End Workbench

Post by jwealleans » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:13 pm

You'd probably get a J38 out of it, Manna.

john coffin
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Re: West End Workbench

Post by john coffin » Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:48 pm

can you imagine cutting the footplate up to get the "S" bends of the J6, that would drive you nuts from the get go.

Paul

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manna
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Re: West End Workbench

Post by manna » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:37 pm

G'Day Gents

Just thinking out loud, I suppose after you've replaced the boiler, cab, runningplate, chassis and built a new tender, there wouldn't be a lot left of the J39.......................if any :lol:

manna
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.

jwealleans
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Re: West End Workbench

Post by jwealleans » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:09 pm

J39 is now in the paintshop (well, the airing cupboard, actually). I took some photos before painting so the modifications are more apparent.

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Having remembered to bring my list downstairs, I can say with some authority that it has had the following done:

New loco to tender coupling
Boiler mould line removed
New lamp irons
Separate drop grate operating rod
New cabside handrails
Injector pipework
Fallplate (none was provided)
Replacment cab rainstrips (the originals curved too high)
Sandbox operating levers
Smokebox rivets removed (they were flush in LNER days)
Second Wakefield lubricator added
Rear coal plate moved back.

I did not replace the front buffers or boiler handrails as I can live with them as they are. The tender coping sides should also be shorter for this batch of J39s (the second batch built, 2691 - 2710), but that was too much surgery and I'd never get a neat enough finish. Have Bachmann ever done a GS tender with the shorter coping plates?

I'll try to fit small approximations of the worksplates on the cabsides when the numbers have been done.

I should also mention that both these run on the original Bachmann split chassis mech and up to now I've had no adverse comments about their running. Once they do start to falter there are Comet chassis waiting, but so far, so good.

Woodcock29
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
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Re: West End Workbench

Post by Woodcock29 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:55 pm

Hi Jonathan
Interesting seeing you upgrade a couple of Bachmann J39s. I have several that all still need to be upgraded plus the parts for a SE Finecast loco plus a 4200 gallon tender kit and a 3500 gallon chassis which of course is shorter. My plan being to build one in the same series as your intended 1275 with the shorter flared top 3500 gallon tender.
I'm currently at my daughters on the Gold Coast in Qld so don't have my Yeadon Vol 11 with me. My recollection is that the tenders with the shorter coping plates (both flush sided and flared versions) that you mention were the 3500 gallon tenders not any of the 4200 gallon tenders. Of course I could be wrong?
Regards
Andrew

Darryl Tooley
LNER N2 0-6-2T
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Re: West End Workbench

Post by Darryl Tooley » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:53 pm

Gentlemen

As it happens, I do have the standard reference works by me, so a few observations might be helpful, if they are taken in the spirit they are intended.

The longer coping plates were to accommodate a higher tender front plate, introduced in the late 1930s. It affected only those GS tenders, both 3,500 and 4,200, with straight sided coping plates, as production of those with stepped out coping plates had long since ceased. All the J39s with 3,500 gal tenders had low front type tenders as built, and only one ever had a high front 3,500 gal tender with a longer coping plate, inherited from one of the V4s when they were withdrawn.

At the time John Cockcroft wrote his article Bachmann had only produced the high front version of the 4,200 gall tender, which as he pointed out in the article was only initially used with 13 engines from No 1933 on. They have since produced the earlier version with the shorter coping plate.

Both 1275 and 2696 left the works with 3,500 gal tenders, the former with the stepped out coping plate, the latter with the straight-sided version.

Hope this helps

D

Woodcock29
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
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Re: West End Workbench

Post by Woodcock29 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:01 am

Gentlemen
I guess I wasn't clear in what I said. What I think Jonathan is referring to is the fact that some tenders had coping plates that were shorter at the rear - this feature I think only related to the 3500 gallon tenders. Comparison of a side on view of a low front 4200 gallon tender and the 3500 gallon tender will I think show that the low section in front of the coping plate is more or less the same on each but that the low section at the rear is longer on the 3500 gallon tenders.

I think all the early batches of J39s had 3500 gallon tenders so I'm thinking that Jonathan's 2696 should ideally have a 3500 gallon tender - but again I could be wrong? Of course it could also have been swapped for a 4200 gallon tender by the late 30s.

One of the joys of modelling the LNER - there were so many variations in every class of loco!

Andrew

Darryl Tooley
LNER N2 0-6-2T
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Location: Briston, UK

Re: West End Workbench

Post by Darryl Tooley » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:56 am

Andrew

Ah, I see - I think.

Certainly the coping plates are shorter and more towards the front than the back on low front 3,500 gallon tenders compared to the contemporary 4,200 gallon version.

According to the RCTS 'Locomotives of the LNER' Part 6A, both engines under consideration had 3,500 gallon tenders throughout their lives.

D

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