Yard Arrivals and Departures: Bishop's Stortford

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03piggs
LNER Thompson L1 2-6-4T
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Yard Arrivals and Departures: Bishop's Stortford

Post by 03piggs »

Hi all,

This is the Arrivals and Departures for the Yard at Bishop's Stortford.

This has been recently updated to include changes that I have made to more recent sheets like Whitemoor & Temple Mills.

For a full list of the different locations i have covered, please visit http://www.stciers.me.uk/home/analysis/ ... _front.htm

All feedback is appreciated.

Stu
Attachments
Bishops Stortford Winter 1952.pdf
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Bishops Stortford Winter 1953.pdf
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Bishops Stortford Winter 1956.pdf
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rockinjohn
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
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Re: Yard Arrivals FELTHAM ex:eastern region 1953

Post by rockinjohn »

Hi 03, this may be of some use for obvious reasons I have only shown Dep. times ex: the E.R yards with loco class rostered for the turn in (Bkts)......FERME PK 03.50/04.50(J50)09.10/13.25/13.45 these two may have taken different routes/17.17 all (J52) the J6's were there @34B in '54 why rostered then& not in '53?
.....TEMPLE MILLS 04.00(SRQ1)/12.05(SR700)NEASDEN 08.54(SR700)/10.15(SRQ1)/19.20(SR700) the relevant RTN DEP. ex: Feltham to the these yards is available but not incl.Another query is did the J52's really full fill the full outward journey without refilling the water tanks on route,they were known to "top up"@ London Bridge when short of water much to the S.R. control's annoyance on the Ferme Park Cross London S.R. Yard Traffic the Southern unhappy about any peak-time movements thru their territory, sometimes looping them on Southern Rails.until the peak passed.jj
rockinjohn
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:10 am

Re: Yard Arrivals FELTHAM ex:eastern region 1953

Post by rockinjohn »

Hi 03, this may be of some use for obvious reasons I have only shown Dep. times ex: the E.R yards with loco class rostered for the turn in (Bkts)......FERME PK 03.50/04.50(J50)09.10/13.25/13.45 these two may have taken different routes/17.17 all (J52) the J6's were there @34B in '54 why rostered then& not in '53?
.....TEMPLE MILLS 04.00(SRQ1)/12.05(SR700)NEASDEN 08.54(SR700)/10.15(SRQ1)/19.20(SR700) the relevant RTN DEP. ex: Feltham to the these yards is available but not incl.Another query is did the J52's really full fill the full outward journey without refilling the water tanks on route,they were known to "top up"@ London Bridge when short of water much to the S.R. control's annoyance on the Ferme Park Cross London S.R. Yard Traffic the Southern unhappy about any peak-time movements thru their territory, sometimes looping them on Southern Rails.until the peak passed.jj
03piggs
LNER Thompson L1 2-6-4T
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:44 pm

Re: Yard Arrivals and Departures: Bishop's Stortford

Post by 03piggs »

Hi John.

Thanks for these. Not sure about the J6s, although I think some tender loco were not used due to the time for turning the loco or there was no turning facilities available at the Yard (I think Acton Yard had no turning facility, not sure of what other yards)

By the way, hope you don't mind me asking, but i wondered where this information had come from? Is this from Locomotive workings/diagrams, working timetables or another source? (apologies, i just like to get the context of the sources)

Stu
On Instagram: woodbourne_modelailway.
boeing757
NER J27 0-6-0
Posts: 139
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Re: Yard Arrivals and Departures: Bishop's Stortford

Post by boeing757 »

Hello Stu,
A very interesting summary of movements.
Can I ask what motive power would have been used on the morning working to Felsted . I spent a lot of time on and around the station as a lad and never saw anything but J17/19 and J20s. Were the J20s rated 6F?
Thank you for making this info available.
Bob
03piggs
LNER Thompson L1 2-6-4T
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:44 pm

Re: Yard Arrivals and Departures: Bishop's Stortford

Post by 03piggs »

boeing757 wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 8:49 pm Hello Stu,
A very interesting summary of movements.
Can I ask what motive power would have been used on the morning working to Felsted . I spent a lot of time on and around the station as a lad and never saw anything but J17/19 and J20s. Were the J20s rated 6F?
Thank you for making this info available.
Bob
Hi Bob,

Thanks for your comment.

The working to Felsted is a bit of a weird one. I've copied it according to the Diagrams, but like you have said, I've only seen photos of J19/20's that would fit with that. Problem is a J19/20 was a 5F. A 6F would be a K3....

My guess is this was an oversight when the diagrams were created. I did consider changing it to 5F, but thought I'd keep it to what was on the diagram.

No problem. More to follow like this.

Stu
On Instagram: woodbourne_modelailway.
rockinjohn
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
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Re: Yard Arrivals FELTHAM ex:eastern region

Post by rockinjohn »

Hi,Actually Neasden 19.20(was SR H15)which is what I always saw when I observed the yard there, but I suppose the (SR 700)a natural replacement choice,Also I may have left out FERME PK(J52)22.10/00.15&TEMPLE MILLS 22.30(S.R 700)that information came from an issue of BRILL that I copied down my other post ref:ER/NLL workings came from a Trains Illustrated mag.circa '55/'56 on a brakevan ride over the very busy goods NLL lines, Also Mickey&others maybe intrested in the fact there is a BRILL Album with an article on Welwyn Station hopefully his reading this.jj
03piggs
LNER Thompson L1 2-6-4T
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:44 pm

Re: Yard Arrivals and Departures: Bishop's Stortford

Post by 03piggs »

rockinjohn wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:26 am Hi,Actually Neasden 19.20(was SR H15)which is what I always saw when I observed the yard there, but I suppose the (SR 700)a natural replacement choice,Also I may have left out FERME PK(J52)22.10/00.15&TEMPLE MILLS 22.30(S.R 700)that information came from an issue of BRILL that I copied down my other post ref:ER/NLL workings came from a Trains Illustrated mag.circa '55/'56 on a brakevan ride over the very busy goods NLL lines, Also Mickey&others maybe intrested in the fact there is a BRILL Album with an article on Welwyn Station hopefully his reading this.jj
Thanks for that.

What issue was this from? I ask, as I'd like to get a copy, if its possible.

Regarding the S15, I was told on another forum that they did on occasion work to Temple Mills. (This was from a former Feltham Fireman who had worked on this turn)

Stu
On Instagram: woodbourne_modelailway.
rockinjohn
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:10 am

Re: Yard Arrivals and Departures: Bishop's Stortford

Post by rockinjohn »

Hi Stu it was around a circa 1994 published issue,which I dont have,just notes on my ER intrest kept,only ever saw the (Q1)&(700) classes @Temple Mills,the S15 were called "Goods Arthurs"& spent most of their time running on LSWR route, fast freight Westward &return mainly night workings, bit like the GWR "47XX" class out of "OOC",strange to see one on cross London mundane goods duties but hey it happens,In reference to the Bishop Stortford branch think all classes mentioned worked it I saw J17( think one or two sub shedded @ BS) &J19 most common& have seen photos of a J20 can't remember any tanks/diesel shunters stationed along it, it was a trundle&shunt not much speed involved along the branch which I dont think was a very lightly laid branch, could be wrong but did sugar beet form part of the traffic?jj
03piggs
LNER Thompson L1 2-6-4T
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:44 pm

Re: Yard Arrivals and Departures: Bishop's Stortford

Post by 03piggs »

rockinjohn wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:42 am Hi Stu it was around a circa 1994 published issue,which I dont have,just notes on my ER intrest kept,only ever saw the (Q1)&(700) classes @Temple Mills,the S15 were called "Goods Arthurs"& spent most of their time running on LSWR route, fast freight Westward &return mainly night workings, bit like the GWR "47XX" class out of "OOC",strange to see one on cross London mundane goods duties but hey it happens,In reference to the Bishop Stortford branch think all classes mentioned worked it I saw J17( think one or two sub shedded @ BS) &J19 most common& have seen photos of a J20 can't remember any tanks/diesel shunters stationed along it, it was a trundle&shunt not much speed involved along the branch which I dont think was a very lightly laid branch, could be wrong but did sugar beet form part of the traffic?jj
Ok thanks John. I'll have a look and see if I can find it.

According to some of the information I have seen (abc Shedbooks, and a couple of other books like it), there were 2 J17's 'officially' allocated to Bishop's Stortford. Not sure of J19's or J20's but they could be out stationed from Stratford. Felsted had a Sugar refinery, so this would probably account for the 'extra' working to there. As far as I can find out, the branch was RA6, so had a fairly large availability for locos.

Hope that helps

Stu
On Instagram: woodbourne_modelailway.
boeing757
NER J27 0-6-0
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:36 am
Location: Cyprus

Re: Yard Arrivals and Departures: Bishop's Stortford

Post by boeing757 »

The sugar beet factory at Felsted in the 50s received large quantities of coal and limestone by rail in the summer months.
During the winter months when beet was processed, large quantities of beet were received via the railway, including extra trains from Bishops Stortford. Pulp for animal feed and packeted sugar was despatched from the premises to Braintree and BS.
I don’t know what the RA was fo the branch, I saw J15/17/20 locomotives and N7/F5 tanks. At the end of steam I saw B1 61156 pass through on a Railroader trial train.
I understand the K3 was a challenge for permanent way and the viaduct at Langleys near Dunmow was the weak point and eventually caused the closure of the line between Dunmow and Felsted. I doubt very much a K3 would be permitted but I believe a WD did pass through at least once.
Sadly time has marched on and there are few people left who could throw some light by having witnessed events.

Bob
rockinjohn
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
Posts: 290
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Re: Yard Arrivals and Departures: Bishop's Stortford

Post by rockinjohn »

Hi Stu 003, I have made contact with a pal & the issue of BRILL you seek is OCTOBER 1994 it has a "Standard 4" on the cover which is Blue with Empty Stk @ St Enochs Station(I think)hope this makes tracking the issue easier to trace?the rostered class on the Neasden yard turn was an( H15) which you may or may not have noticed not an (S15),Also the BS branch had many airfields very near to the line, some belonging to the USAF all being very busy with Rail Traffic in WW2 and still in operation post war to a degree.jj
03piggs
LNER Thompson L1 2-6-4T
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:44 pm

Re: Yard Arrivals and Departures: Bishop's Stortford

Post by 03piggs »

boeing757 wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:23 pm The sugar beet factory at Felsted in the 50s received large quantities of coal and limestone by rail in the summer months.
During the winter months when beet was processed, large quantities of beet were received via the railway, including extra trains from Bishops Stortford. Pulp for animal feed and packeted sugar was despatched from the premises to Braintree and BS.
I don’t know what the RA was fo the branch, I saw J15/17/20 locomotives and N7/F5 tanks. At the end of steam I saw B1 61156 pass through on a Railroader trial train.
I understand the K3 was a challenge for permanent way and the viaduct at Langleys near Dunmow was the weak point and eventually caused the closure of the line between Dunmow and Felsted. I doubt very much a K3 would be permitted but I believe a WD did pass through at least once.
Sadly time has marched on and there are few people left who could throw some light by having witnessed events.

Bob
Hi Bob.

I had another look at my source info and include a photo from the 1952 'Compendium of Passenger Train point-to-point times and Timing and Diagramming Data' that I own, which shows the restriction of the Braintree-Stortford line.
20220302_071939.jpg
From the list of locos, a WD is RA6 & a B1 is RA5, so 'officially' they both could work on the line.
Im not old enough to of seen the line working, hence why i rely on official documents and photos.

Stu
On Instagram: woodbourne_modelailway.
03piggs
LNER Thompson L1 2-6-4T
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:44 pm

Re: Yard Arrivals and Departures: Bishop's Stortford

Post by 03piggs »

rockinjohn wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 5:26 am Hi Stu 003, I have made contact with a pal & the issue of BRILL you seek is OCTOBER 1994 it has a "Standard 4" on the cover which is Blue with Empty Stk @ St Enochs Station(I think)hope this makes tracking the issue easier to trace?the rostered class on the Neasden yard turn was an( H15) which you may or may not have noticed not an (S15),Also the BS branch had many airfields very near to the line, some belonging to the USAF all being very busy with Rail Traffic in WW2 and still in operation post war to a degree.jj
Thanks John, I'll have a look for it.

Stu
On Instagram: woodbourne_modelailway.
boeing757
NER J27 0-6-0
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:36 am
Location: Cyprus

Re: Yard Arrivals and Departures: Bishop's Stortford

Post by boeing757 »

Stu
Only just noticed your reply to my last post. Please excuse the apparent discourtesy, your reply slipped under my radar.
All the best
Bob
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