The LNER Encyclopedia

I think the nameboard on the box says Holloway North Up.

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manna wrote:G'Day Gents

Is this a help Micky, I can't tell if it's up or down !!

manna

As has now been confirmed, manna; yes. that's North Up alright. But as you sort of asked, it's an Up train - as regards which 'road' it's on; rather tricky to see the far right tracks to work it out, but I think it's the Up Fast.
North Up was the largest 'one-side' box in the London area, having a Dutton & Co. lever frame of 85 levers.

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As regards the old Holloway North Down signal box, I have been told that this was replaced by the new structure sometime during the 1950s and the old structure became staff accomodation as regards Holloway Carraige sidings as it was at the south side of Holloway Road bridge and the new structure was at the north end. If it is the cabin that i was told it was then it had a somewhat goulish life after the demise of the sidings and survived a virtual wreck until quiet recent times until after new housing was built on this site.

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sandwhich wrote:As regards the old Holloway North Down signal box, I have been told that this was replaced by the new structure sometime during the 1950s and the old structure became staff accomodation as regards Holloway Carraige sidings as it was at the south side of Holloway Road bridge and the new structure was at the north end. If it is the cabin that i was told it was then it had a somewhat goulish life after the demise of the sidings and survived a virtual wreck until quiet recent times until after new housing was built on this site.

There were three "Holloway North Down" boxes over time that I know of, the first opened in 1896, the second in 1901 and then third in 1946. All three were on the north side of the Holloway Road bridge. It is possible that part of one of the earlier boxes was re-used as described; I don't recall the building so I can't say. It would be unlikely to be the second one as that came to an untimely end around 1940 - not through enemy action but through a shunting accident. Those are the dates I have, presumably some sort of emergency working applied between 1940 and 1946.

Holloway Carriage Sidings was on the south side of the Holloway Road, it is also possible that part of this is the building referred to but it was by no means a hut in its operational form. This was closed and taken over by the new 1946 box.

John

G'Day Gents

To go back to page 1&2, and the mention of the new flying junction at Hitchin, I have seen plans for the flyover to be built after the station, did they ever consider building it 'Before' Hitchin station (like Welwyn) and building an extra couple of platforms on the site of the old loco, which would allow them to pick up the old alignment a lot quicker, and would be a lot cheaper to build, as they already have the land. !!

manna

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I didn't know of a south flyover scheme, but there was a different concept discussed, on which I was asked (amongst many others I'm sure) by the KX area management for my operational practicalities thoughts on it around 1988.

Talk was of making the Up platform an island with both tracks (Up Slow and new 'back platform loop') bi-directional, with much pointwork at the south end (at least six crossovers in total I think), and significant alterations at the north, because the thought was to facilitate many parallel moves in order to concentrate all passenger train activity over there, but with the Down platform retained for emergencies, and any postal/newspapers handling (we still had some of such traffic then).
I wouldn't have fancied regulating down Peterboro' route calling services over to the up side and then back again, between the '125' flyers up and down the Fasts though.
After a few weeks I heard nothing more of the idea.

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Does anyone know when the Hertford North Loop flyover was constructed at Alexandra Palace station?

I found this picture (link below) earlier and it appears to show the ECML looking north from the station, but with no flyover.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31514768@N05/4749551809/

Similarly this other picture (link below) shows the line in the other direction and there's no suggestion that platform 4 diverted off to the loop.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31514768@N ... otostream/

Thanks!

Can put this one to bed.

The shot of the Brit is from north of the flyover.

The A4 pic.Taken from south of the flyover. Look at the rh side of the photo. the flyover access was thriough the arch and more or less headed onto the flyover. The fireworks of thwe N2 and L1 pulling the ECS over to Bounds green carriage sidings is still remembered. as were the times they had to set bat because of stallling IIRC the Hertford trains used p6 . thePlatform/line sequence was up through carriage p1 loading on west side of train, from Hertford. P2 and 3 single line from Hitchin load from both sides P4 Up ML then down ML P5 was down Hitchin P6 Down Hertford then there was two other lines one joined the Hetford line after station road bridge and the outer one was the 'Kyhber joining the dn Hitchin afer the flyover crossed all lines. There are diagrams showing this in either BackTrck, LRR, or BRILL. If i find them i will post them
As an aside we used to 'spot' from just past the Bridge.
In Alexandra Park Rd? there is a parade of shops that back onto the railway, there was an opening that got you in view of the railway, and a wall you could sit on. Drop of the wall onto the grass bank and you were standing above the Khyber, drop of about 20ft (or so it seemed) Along the ege of the drop were the standard raised cable runs supported by posts about 4ft apert. to while away the time between trains the game was to balance on these posts and walk backwards and fowrds, turning round on the posts a each end. Fall off one way you hit the grass, the other its a loooong waaay down! Tested the nerves when a train passed.

So in answer to your question, the flyover has been there since the Hertford loop was built

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silverfox wrote: " .... IIRC the Hertford trains used p6 . thePlatform/line sequence was up through carriage p1 loading on west side of train, from Hertford. P2 and 3 single line from Hitchin load from both sides P4 Up ML then down ML P5 was down Hitchin P6 Down Hertford then there was two other lines one joined the Hetford line after station road bridge and the outer one was the 'Kyhber joining the dn Hitchin afer the flyover crossed all lines. .... "

I'd go along with that silverfox, but in case it's of any further help to your understanding allypally, the official names in the signal boxes of what silverfox describes above, were
- Easternmost line, Up Goods (no platform);
then Up Branch (from Hertford), Plat.1;
then Up Slow (from Potters Bar direction), serving Plats. 2 & 3;
Up Fast, Plat.4;
Down Fast (no platform);
Down Slow No.1, Plat.5, continuing as the Down Slow;
Down Slow No.2, Plat. 6, continuing as the Down Hertford line; - and finally
the Westernmost line, Down Goods (no platform), leading on to go round the outside of the flyover's Down Hertford line approach ramp, and which hence was known as 'the Khyber Pass'.

There was a long scissors crossover immediately north of the road bridge, between the Down Slow 1/Down Slow line and the diverging Down Slow 2/Hertford line, part of the layout controlled by No.3 box, allowing trains on either slow line to go to either route (there was also a DG - D.Hertford crossover in parallel with these).

However, thanks mainly I think to a bankslip on the west side of the station (which was then halted by heavy duty sheet piling next to Slow 2), by about 1967/8 the Down Goods then ended with the DG-DS2 crossover at the south end of platform 6 (worked by No.1 box), so the DG through 'the Khyber' was rendered redundant, and with it, WG Tunnel box (just visible in the background of the 'looking north' photo of Clive Of India) closed. Then before long control of the scissors crossover and associated signals was transferred to No.1 box, and No.3 (on the north end of plats. 5 & 6) was also closed as a box, though it remained and served other use for many years.

With the 1970s resignalling/modernisation, the Up Hertford line was realigned to join the Up Slow north of the road bridge, platforms 1 & 2 thus became redundant, were demolished, and Plats. 3-6 re-numbered to 1-4.

Presumably for some local/community or sponsored reason to promote rail travel to the palace and grounds (and with the original Alexandra Palace station and branch line having closed in 1954), Wood Green station was re-named Alexandra Palace (early-mid '80s? ; - 'Opened' by Diana Dors IIRC), although all non-station/passenger railway items around (ground frames, interlocking/Relay Room, etc.) were not changed and remain officially named "Wood Green" to this day.