BR-Era Power Signalling: Pitfalls With Perceived Points Problems

[StevieG]

Mickey's most recent post in the "New Barnet North box" thread in this forum, reminded me of a similar instance at Stevenage in (IIRC) sometime in the early 1980s.
After an Up 'turn-in' move (Up Fast to Up Slow) at the present-day station, the King's Cross power box, Panel 5 signalman could not regain positional detection on the 'turn-in' crossover points, which meant that it was impossible to clear the protecting signals (K666 & 668), located beside the former Up yard near the site of Stevenage 'old' station, so the next train on both lines came to a stand at these signals which were, of course, showing their red aspects.
Several attempts to move the points back and forth, hoping to get detection in at least one position, were unsuccessful, so the station staff were asked to operate and secure the points manually in their 'Normal' position, so that trains could be got moving again straight along both lines, even if 'at caution', passing the said signals at Danger in the process. [Such assistance by station staff should not occur in the privatised railway, as the Train Operating Companies staffs are not trained in hands-on railway operating work, and indeed, AFAIK, are not even permitted to descend to track level.]

After about 15 minutes, a Leading Railman called in from a lineside 'phone (no mobile 'phones around then) and an apparently clear understanding was reached between the caller and the signalman.
Now at the time, not all trains were cab/signal box radio-fitted, and on those EMUs that were, drivers were not required to call in as soon as they came to a stand at a red, or too frequently after they did make initial contact.
It so happened that the first of the two drivers to make contact once the signalman was able to give permission to pass the red signals, was that on the Up Fast 'train' (actually a Light Engine), and he was duly so authorised to proceed.
While the Up Slow train had [fortunately] still not been given the same permission, the LE passed through the problem points with no immediate danger to itself; BUT, it crossed smoothly over to the Up SLOW! The points had actually been secured on the ground in their 'Reverse' position instead of in 'Normal'! - The Up Slow train, luckily, was still standing back at signal K668 as its driver had still not made further, recent contact, so the signalman had yet to give him authority to move.
Fortunately, another possible error, that of only 'winding' (manually operating) the facing end of a crossover and forgetting to also do the other (trailing) end, had not occurred, otherwise the LE in this incident would have 'run-through' the trailing end of the points, causing damage to the toes of the point switches (blades) and / or stretcher bars and / or to the electric point-motor machine.

A safer problem through misunderstanding once occurred at the 'old' (1955?) Potters Bar Power Box.
The equipment there was that of the Metropolitan Vickers/G.R.S. company, whose practice at that time was to repeat (indicate) to the signalman, detection of in which of their two possible positions, the switches' (blades') toes of each point end was laying (or of no detection information coming into the box: If lasting longer than approx. 7 seconds, this was an 'out-of-order' situation), not by individual lights on the panel, but by providing triangular-shaped moving metal indicators in their correct places on the track diagram, which were moved to and fro by electro-magnetic coils just behind them.

On the evening in question, the PB signalman reported that his Up 'turn-in' was stuck in 'Reverse' (crossover set for movements to cross from Up Fast to Up Slow), so any trains approaching on the UF could only continue by being signalled to cross to the US, and any approaching PB on the US would become detained at the relevant protecting signal (PB1, or the nearer PB3; I forget which one it would've had to be) while the points remained failed in this way.
Several trains came along on the UF [some probably 'turned out' (US-UF) at Hatfield No.1 Box because of the problem] and were duly crossed to the US ( and then, if desired, back to the UF again through the fully working 'turn-out' at the south end of PB station); while (I think) at least one train, on the US, had to await an improvement in the situation.

The S&T technicians were soon on the scene at the points, but spent quite a while without finding a fault anywhere outside.
So they adjourned indoors to look for faults in the relay room, then again failing to find the cause, came up to the operating floor, where it was soon identified that it was the points' movable indicator that had stuck in 'Reverse', the points were really operating faultlessly outside, as evidenced when it freed as soon as the Lineman touched it, upon which the power in its controlling coils caused it to immediately click over to Normal, showing the real position of the points.
So, instead of acting on seeing the points indicator not moving when it ought to, had the signalman tried operating his UF signals normally they would have cleared as usual : A good 'learning point' as modern investigatory reports might put it! - Perchance, in the mind of a signalman who'd previously known only lever-framed boxes, there was still a degree of over-caution in not trying to do what he probably wondered might be, with the information available to him, contrary to safe but practical operation in a failure situation.

[ Edited 00:01 Sun. 13/12/15, to clarify a few minor points.]

[Mickey]

An interesting post above Stevie, when it comes to 'power operated points' in particular once you've 'lost detection' on them thats it you can't run anything over them until someone has gone down and had a look at them to findout whats wrong with them or if you can't get detection back they will have to be 'clipped up' if you require to run a train over them?. At Welwyn Garden City no.5 lever a blue/black short handled lever operated a set of 'motor points' leading from the Down slow to the Luton line platform inconjunction with the trap points as well at the station end as you will remember Stevie, later on around about May of 1973 the mechanical points from the Down fast to Down slow line at the south end of the station were also 'motorised' although the FPL lever was retained for 'locking purposes' and still had to be put back in the frame to un-lock the points and pulled over to lock the points when the points lever was operated.

The thing about working motorised points off a lever is from memory you can jar your arm the bone if your hand & arm is still pushing the lever if your not careful and the lever hits the midway 'check lock' position in the lever frame a bit to sudden!. I believe i've heard of a signalman breaking his arm doing that in the long gone past, usually motorised point levers weren't that hard to pull or put back in the lever frame and not much effort is/was required to operate them just be careful with the lever 'hitting' the check lock position at the midway point of the lever stroke otherwise you could get a sudden jolt through your arm it goes through the arm bone!!.

Mickey