North Country Continental

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GBRJ8
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North Country Continental

Post by GBRJ8 »

Hello everyone.

The BBC Great British Railway Journeys production team are currently working on the 8th series and we are hoping to find out more about the North Country Continental Service, which seems to have begun in the 1890s. Can anyone help with detailed route information / any other historical context? Or recommend any books / other resources?

Thanks in advance!
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Re: North Country Continental

Post by 65447 »

I strongly recommend that you submit your query to the Great Eastern Railway Society, as this train service originated with that company c1885. The Society has published articles in its Journal and also on the locomotives and carriages used in the train:

http://www.gersociety.org.uk/index.php
mailto: enquiries@gersociety.org.uk

A brief description may be found in Named Trains on LNER Lines Part II, W.B. Yeadon, Booklaw Publications 2004 ISBN 1 899624 78 3

This train carried the first GER Dining Car in 1891 and was the first railway company to allow 3rd class passengers to dine - and was provided with a new set of elliptical roof (rather than the old clerestory style) bogie carriages in 1906. A more detailed description of the carriages and formation in the early days, together with the places served which also varied over time, can be found in chapter 13 of The Great Eastern Railway, C. J. Allen, Ian Allan (first published) 1955.

I and many others will look forward to another series of GBRJ but personally I'd prefer not to have to listen to that annoying music used when linking segments or as background to the 'guess which train I'm not on' filler shots.
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: North Country Continental

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

A firmer "subject focus" on the railway, the history of the railway, and the journey, with rather less coverage of things only tenuously connected with it would be to my liking.

While we're on vaguely the right theme I've no idea why we didn't get last night's scheduled episode (in North Lincolnshire at least) but were fed an Eggheads special instead. Does anybody know?
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65447
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Re: North Country Continental

Post by 65447 »

Having just watched it, it featured Brookwood Cemetery and the first crematorium; not necessarily an appropriate topic for Holocaust Day. There is a double helping tomorrow, Friday 29th, to catch up and complete this journey.
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Re: North Country Continental

Post by Hatfield Shed »

GBRJ8 wrote:...Or recommend any books / other resources?...
Does this imply that the 'Bradshaw' has been misplaced?

Seriously, it's a good subject, and might pick up on the why of this service finding passengers. I would find a closer focus on the railway element attractive, development of the infrastructure, rail served industries and military sites, traffic flows and the service history.
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Re: North Country Continental

Post by 65447 »

Hatfield Shed wrote:Seriously, it's a good subject, and might pick up on the why of this service finding passengers. I would find a closer focus on the railway element attractive, development of the infrastructure, rail served industries and military sites, traffic flows and the service history.
If the new series of American journeys is anything to go by, railways/railroads hardly figure these days.
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billbedford
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Re: North Country Continental

Post by billbedford »

GBRJ8 wrote:Hello everyone.
Can anyone help with detailed route information / any other historical context? Or recommend any books / other resources?
'The Great Central in LNER Days vol 2' by David Jackson and Owen Russell, Ian Allen, 1986 ISBN 0 7110 16127
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Re: North Country Continental

Post by 1H was 2E »

Seeing the reference to an LNER boat train and, I know going slightly off topic, one thing has puzzled me about the services to Harwich.
I am sure that everyone realises that BR's two classes were 1st and 3rd until (?) 1957, when they became 1st and 2nd; and one of the reasons this change could not be made earlier, I thought, was that the mainland European operators still had three classes.
There were still three classes on Southern Region boat trains until 3rd became 2nd; indeed, some BR standard open seconds (S35xx) were built, but the LNER did not seem to have any seconds - or have I missed something? Or perhaps it was only SNCF that still had second, NS being the same as BR.
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Re: North Country Continental

Post by jwealleans »

Stock built for boat services via Harwich had a Second class.
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Re: North Country Continental

Post by 1H was 2E »

Thanks for the quick response. I'll have a closer look at my Michael Harris book...
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billbedford
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Re: North Country Continental

Post by billbedford »

The GN suburban services, i.e. the quad arts, also retain second class up until WW2
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Re: North Country Continental

Post by 65447 »

Second Class was also retained in the London Area suburban services, even after First Class was dropped from them.
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Re: North Country Continental

Post by JASd17 »

I believe second class accommodation was abolished on the GN and GE suburban sets from 1-1-1938, so a little before the war.

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Re: North Country Continental

Post by robertcwp »

Here are some notes on the formations for the North Country Continental in BR days:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/327 ... -01-15.pdf

Third Class became Second with effect from 3 June 1956, one week prior to the start of the summer timetable.

The Hook Continental in BR days had first and second class accommodation, and continued to use largely the set built pre-war by the LNER. Third class was in the relief train. Summer 1953 formation was:

BSK(6) (end door)
SO(RC)
RS
SO
SO
FO
FO(RC)
RF
FO(RC)
Semi-FO (end door)
FK(6) - transverse corridor (ie Thompson stock)
BG
BG

(6) - number of compartments
RC - restaurant car
Note there was no Third Class in the train.
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Re: North Country Continental

Post by 1H was 2E »

My previous post was intended to relate only to 2nd class that was still in use until the abolition of 3rd class; however other posts have helped to resolve another outstanding one, so thanks.
This concerns the LMS (don't go away, there's a GN angle) that built 2nd class coaches (including 1/2 comps. and brake 2nds) for the Broad St - Alexandra Park* services - the only other LMS 2nds were on the NCC. These are given in the Essery/Jenkinson LMS coach book as downgraded to 3rds "ca 1938" so the 1.1.38 date is an improvement. The seating pitch was identical to the 3rds, though the book says "the seating might have been softer". The sets were formed BT T T C(3/1) C(1/2) S BS, so quite a large proportion of 2nd.

* as described by Essery/Jenkinson.

Sorry to wander away from the original post, but its interesting (IMO).
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