East Coast Mail Train

[notascoobie]

Rob,
We've gone on for a while on this thread now, but it's the precise arrangement of the carriages that I'm trying to nail. Your input is therefore most valuable thanks.
Regards,
Vernon

[robertcwp]

I don't know much about engine workings. It's what they pulled that interests me more. Tommy Knox would know about the engines. Not sure if he is still with us though.

Tommy Knox is indeed still very much with us and has provided information on the motive power for summer 1957, of which the following is an extract:

26/6/57 60034
1/7/57 60149 (had worked up Tees-Tyne Pullman earlier in the day)
9/7/57 60862
11/7/57 60047
18/7/57 60828
22/7/57 60125
30/7/57 60066
1/8/57 60013

Tommy doesn't have information for the remainder of August, unfortunately.

So, it could be an A1, A3, A4 or V2.

[52D]

Robert whats Tommys website Address i used to go on regular but then it went haywire for a bit and i havent been back.

[robertcwp]

Robert whats Tommys website Address i used to go on regular but then it went haywire for a bit and i havent been back.

Possibly this one: http://www.lner-pacifics.me.uk/

I was put in touch with Tommy directly by someone who knows him.

[65447]

The book 'Illustrated History of the Travelling Post Office' records that the last apparatus working was on 28th August 1968 at Alnmouth.

TPO coaches were numbers 2151-4, with 3 in service and 1 spare.

By the way it's apparently the 'London-York-Edinburgh Railway Sorting Carriage' Down and 'Edinburgh-York Sorting Carriage' Up...

[notascoobie]

G'day,

Thanks very much for your further inputs.

Rob, the information you posted from Tommy Knox is very interesting. We've been thinking about how the locos and crew might have been rostered.

65447. Thanks for that. Taking the "names" of the carriages was a nuance I hadn't thought of. I think it confirms my view that the carriages were turned each trip. Even though the date is much later than we're interested in.

Regards,

Vernon

[65447]

Delving a bit further, 2151-4 were built by the LNER to Dia. 165 for the L-Y-E TPO, renumbered 70300-3 in 1946. All were equipped with apparatus.

The date is merely a record of the last use of the apparatus.

[StevieG]

FWIW, I think I recall understanding, in passing, that around the mid-'60s, before the 'Eastern curve' of the Dalston (London) triangle [between Dalston Junction (at the station of that name) and "Eastern Junction"], was closed, that there was a daily (EWD only?) ECS trip of some sort from Bounds Green to be turned on the triangle, and back ; I can only think of POS/POT vehicles as needing turning in this way.
I am however possibly mistaken in where this turning took place : I could be thinking of LEs being turned at Dalston, with the vans being taken on to turn at Stratford by some means (couldn't say how/by what routes), which it would seem that they would have had to do anyway if turning was still done once Dalston ceased to be a triangle.

[robertcwp]

Here are some views at Newcastle which I think were taken in the 1960s:

E70298E_close-up2_Newcastle by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

E70302E_close-up_Newcastle by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

E70298E_Newcastle by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

E70298E_close-up_Newcastle by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[65447]

70298 was in the North Eastern TPO - a sort of 'relief' to the L-Y-E TPO. The TPO workings were many, varied and difficult to identify accurately over time, especially as the Down and Up workings could be quite distinct from each other rather than simple reversals. There is a mention in the previously-noted source that the last NE Up apparatus drop was at Huntingdon on 29th April 1965.

Nice and informative photographs as always Robert.

[notascoobie]

Thanks for the further information chaps and special thanks to Rob for the interesting photos.

65447 is correct that the working were complex. I think the northbound train was split up at Newcastle with a POS coming off there. The POS was then used in a Newcastle-Leeds and return working before joining the southbound service on the following day.

Interesting stuff!

Regards,

Vernon

[sandwhich]

Yes Stevie G you are right about turning the mail vans on what was known as the Dalston Triangle which finished sometime in the mid 60s after which the vans then went to Stratford to turn on what was then the disused platform to then set back on a goods line past the west Channelsea curve before moving onto that curve going onto the GN side. But this move ceased in 1974 when Ferme Park carriage sidings opened with the turntable being used to turn these vehicles.

[StevieG]

Yes Stevie G you are right about turning the mail vans on what was known as the Dalston Triangle which finished sometime in the mid 60s after which the vans then went to Stratford to turn on what was then the disused platform to then set back on a goods line past the west Channelsea curve before moving onto that curve going onto the GN side. But this move ceased in 1974 when Ferme Park carriage sidings opened with the turntable being used to turn these vehicles.

Ah! Thanks sandwhich. That Stratford routeing therefore sounds like it used the platforms 12/13 island (the Down Cambridge line / loop line platform), back along one of the bi-directional Carriage Lines A & B, or Up Cambridge, to west of Carpenters Road Jn. then forward again, east-north along Carpenters Road Curve, to Channelsea Jn. and beyond through Lea Jn., Victoria Park Jn. and so on.
Good info.

[sandwhich]

Sorry about the confusion Stevie G as regards turning the mail vans on Carpenters Road curves when i stated Channelsea curves. It was all a long time ago.

[StevieG]

Sorry about the confusion Stevie G as regards turning the mail vans on Carpenters Road curves when i stated Channelsea curves. It was all a long time ago.

No problem sandwich; I understood where you meant.
Jut thought I'd go into more detail to possibly help any 'silent' readers interested in where it was done.
I think the Channelsea Curve was the southern double track round from Channelsea Jn. turning east, to Stratford Central Jn. (London end of the station), with the other curve being Carpenters Road Curve as I described.