KX Throat Remodelling circa 1976 or 1977

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S&T
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KX Throat Remodelling circa 1976 or 1977

Post by S&T » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:12 am

Hi all.
I am seeking information regarding the KX throat remodelling around 1976 or 1977 prior to electrification. Specifically: remodelling phases, track layout diagrams before and after, signalling info and any supporting pictures.

Thanks and regards
Steve

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Re: KX Throat Remodelling circa 1976 or 1977

Post by 65447 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:51 pm

Have you checked out the publication at the top of this page http://irwellpress.com/acatalog/LONDON_ ... ILWAY.html ? And there is a comprehensive text description with 'before and after' track layouts in John Glover's 'Eastern Electric', Ian Allan.

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Re: KX Throat Remodelling circa 1976 or 1977

Post by Mickey » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:35 pm

Funny I was actually thinking of the remodelling of the area north of the platform ends at Kings Cross and Gasworks tunnel when I was passing along York Way on the top deck of a 390 bus yesterday (Saturday) and looking at the overall panoramic view of the station and where Passenger Loco and the Milk Dock use to be and thinking how different it all was 45-50 years ago.

From memory from seeing the work done at the time the remodelling of the layout from the main line platform ends nos.1-8 including the west side suburban platforms nos.9-13 to Gasworks tunnel took place during the summer of 1977 over a nine weeks period and was called by British Rail "Clearing The Throat" see the poster issued by British Rail on the link below.

www.vintagerailposters.co.uk/Photo/1683 ... oster-1977


Mickey

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Re: KX Throat Remodelling circa 1976 or 1977

Post by MikeTrice » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:39 am

Another candidate is "Modern Railways" for October 1977 which had a big article on the remodelling.

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StevieG
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Re: KX Throat Remodelling circa 1976 or 1977

Post by StevieG » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:33 pm

S&T wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:12 am
Hi all.
I am seeking information regarding the KX throat remodelling around 1976 or 1977 prior to electrification. Specifically: remodelling phases, track layout diagrams before and after, signalling info and any supporting pictures.

Thanks and regards
Steve
Provided that you have no problem accessing it S&T, you may find the other end of this link helpful : -

http://www.signallingnotices.org.uk/not ... ?n_id=2149 .

Can't comment confidently on when minor pre-works were done, or on actual main works dates ( except that the above-linked-to No.90 Notice is recorded as having date-into-effect as Fri. 01st - Sun. 04th April 1977.

I do however recall that the main works were done in two stages : -

- First, the 'west' side was taken out of use for remodelling/removals for something like two weeks, which I think was to/from platform Nos.[of the 1970s, and still-current (up to 11) re-numbering scheme) 7-13 across to and including the 'Milk yard'/'Passenger Loco', and to Down Fast No.2; except that, because the 'via the City Widened Lines' Down route was still required in weekday 'peaks' (must've been so that some trains could start from Plat.14), a route from the Down 'Met.' line to Down Slow was retained for a period, but was under Possession at all other times. The reduced services continued using the 'east side', York Road platform, Down Fast No.1 and the Up lines.
These were still being controlled from the IFS panel in the SW corner of the 1970-71 PSB building, which had taken over control from the miniature-frame 'old' box in the latter year.
By the time that the above started, there had already been changes in the Holloway / Belle Isle approaches, also controlled by the IFS panel.
The Down Slow had been diverted to its current routing through the western bore of Copenhagen Tunnel (formerly the Down Goods), the new Up Slow was a divergence in the old Up Slow at Holloway, in order to run over the rebuilt flyover and also through the west tunnel bore (where the Up Goods, serving only the KX Goods Yard [Freight Terminal] had run).
The Down Fast had been slewed to the old Down Slow alignment through the centre Cop. Tunnel bore and the Up Fast was running, also as now, by having been slewed into the old Down Fast through the tunnel.
The present five crossovers between the four running lines (and the new lead off the Down Slow towards the Freight Terminal and the North London Incline, plus the little 17-switch IFS panel "Freight Terminal Junction" 'box') were already in and working, but the old Up Slow still ran through the eastern bore of both tunnels, still with the Belle Isle US - (old)UF crossover (KC32) still allowing the old Up Fast to be used from there into the station's platforms 1-4; the old UF between Holloway and Belle Isle then already being out of use.


- Sometime around the end of the above first main stage and the beginning of the next, I think there has to have been a short (maybe a weekend or part thereof) block of Plats.4-6 when their connections were remodelled; because -

-Then the final main part was removals/remodelling/creation of the 'east side', Plats.1-3, York Road, the East Sidings, and all the old Up lines, during which, services used 4-10 and the new 'B', 'C', and 'D Routes' (final names. No.1 Fast and Nos.1 & 2 Slows), under control of the main K PSB NX panel, the IFS panel by then being completely o.o.u.

IIRC the whole of the station 'throat' works took around 4 weeks.
Last edited by StevieG on Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:49 am, edited 4 times in total.
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S&T
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Re: KX Throat Remodelling circa 1976 or 1977

Post by S&T » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:14 pm

Thank you for your responses. Very informative. I will investigate the links and other information suggested as well.

Thanks again for taking time to recall your memories.

Steve

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Re: KX Throat Remodelling circa 1976 or 1977

Post by silverfox » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:39 pm

I remember that period as i was 'long distance courting' my present wife who lived in Edinburgh and the last trip south was on our wedding day in August 1977.
As we alternated on visits we both managed to clear all 22 Deltic haulage going up on the Friday and back on the Sunday.
Can recall getting to Finsbury Park on time and crawling the rest of the way many times.

Got so fed up with the ECML that i managed to do northbound trips from each of the 'northern' London main line stations. (except Fenchurch Street) Had some lovely routings as well.

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Re: KX Throat Remodelling circa 1976 or 1977

Post by Mickey » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:06 pm

silverfox wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:39 pm
Can recall getting to Finsbury Park on time and crawling the rest of the way many times.
Thus I presume was always the way during the GN/LNER era as well as it was during the 1970-75 era that I remember well, usually after getting a good run up from say York or Doncaster or Peterborough behind either a Deltic or a Brush type 4 on passing through the south end of Finsbury Park station the trains brakes would be applied as an approaching 'signals check' at Holloway South Up (box) motorised distant signal (mounted beneath Finsbury Park 4s starting signal) would be seen standing at 'caution' as the trains speed would be brought down quite drastically to just above a walking pace (or even a dead stand?) at the top of 'the Holloway bank' after which the Holloway South Up signalman would 'get the road' and clear his 1st & 2nd home signals as the train would slowly re-start and get underway again gathering a bit of speed down 'the bank' at between about 15-20mph passed Holloway South Up and then under the Caledonian road bridge and on into Copenhagen tunnel and then back out into the open of Belle Isle before being stopped again on the Up relief/carriage line outside Gasworks tunnel although some Up expresses did get a 'clear road' straight up the fast line south of Finsbury Park then down 'Holloway bank' and through Belle Isle and on into Kings Cross platforms nos.1-4 (East side arrivals).

Happy days...

Mickey

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Re: KX Throat Remodelling circa 1976 or 1977

Post by thesignalman » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:10 pm

That is all because you could only access the Metropolitan and Platforms 1, 2, 4 & 5 from the Up Slow at Holloway - 90% of traffic had to go Up the Main at Holloway South Up, including all the locals. HSU box had to ask the Cross permission to run anything other than Met traffic Up Slow. Most expresses that got clobbered did so because they were running early (unless the job was up the shoot) so there was no harm done.

I was a telegraph boy at South Up and we knew the booked platforming but it was my job to still ask if they could "take it on the Arrival" because you never knew what platforms were free. I also did the boy's job at the receiving end so I saw both sides of the coin.

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Re: KX Throat Remodelling circa 1976 or 1977

Post by StevieG » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:38 pm

Part of those signal checks, of course, Mickey, was often owing to one of the worst features of the old layout - that a lot of departures needed routings that conflicted with arrivals on the Up Relief line, and vice versa : -
- Recalling that the Up Relief was the only arrival line which gave access into platforms 5-13 (6-8, 10-15 in 'old money' :) ) and Down Fast 1 was the only departure road reachable from 1-4 (old 1, 2, 4 & 5).
So, for example, for any departure from 1-4 (later numbers) given preference over Up traffic, any train to come in via the Up Relief would have to wait at KC84 until the Down train was fully in the tunnel; For any train to go up 7, nothing could leave 1-6 until the arrival was clear of the pointwork right outside the tunnel.
And for any Up parlys or locals to cross to 10 or 11 (which of course could be as lowly as just a 2-car Cravens unit), there could only be a simultaneous departure from 12-14; any others had to wait (including an express; possibly a Deltic-hauled Scottish train) : while, If such was going up 12 or 13, no passenger train could leave at all except off the Down 'Met.' (from the City Widened lines) from No.14 (or something non-passenger out of 'the Milk Yard' or off 'Passenger Loco')

AND, anything to go Up Relief at Belle Isle, had in the first place, to be on the Up Fast from Holloway South Up of course !
Last edited by StevieG on Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KX Throat Remodelling circa 1976 or 1977

Post by StevieG » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:51 pm

Oops! I see John has also posted while I was composing mine (funny that when submitting, I didn't get the warning message, something like 'a subsequent post has been made, you may wish to review yours before posting' or whatever.).

But I don't think any content of the posts' are in conflict.
Last edited by StevieG on Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KX Throat Remodelling circa 1976 or 1977

Post by Mickey » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:30 am

thesignalman wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:10 pm
I was a telegraph boy at South Up and we knew the booked platforming but it was my job to still ask if they could "take it on the Arrival" because you never knew what platforms were free. I also did the boy's job at the receiving end so I saw both sides of the coin.
I went in Holloway South Up (box) one afternoon circa the summer of 1972 for around 20 minutes this 'unofficial visit' came about because myself and another telegraph lad who was at the box at that time were both going to the old Ilford signalling school to learn the single needle telegraph instrument together (in with the trainee signalmen's class) and that afternoon after we left the Ilford school he had to go back to the box for some reason so we went together and I thus had a look inside the box. Holloway South Up was a fairly small box with I'm guessing a maximum of a 40 lever frame(?) and was located on the cattle dock platform that was on the Up side of the running lines into Kings Cross and overlooked Holloway South Down (box) that stood almost directly opposite across the running lines. The box it's self had a brick built bottom half with a wooden top half along with a gable roof. The box had all semaphore signals along with a few disc signals although later on when the box took over Holloway North Up (box) former area of control at the 'top of the Holloway bank' from the summer of 1970 onwards there was a small ground position light signal that was provided situated in the Up Goods line that read back into the x3 roads Hornsey Road sidings that was controlled by the box.

Meanwhile back in Belle Isle even though the first time that I rode a train into & out of Kings Cross was from around June/July 1967 through into 1968 I can't for some reason remember Belle Isle Up (box) although during that time period I was only around 10 & 11 years old so maybe it just never registered or I was to busy and interested in looking at Goods And Mineral Junction (box) and missed Belle Isle Up (box) altogether?.

Mickey

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Re: KX Throat Remodelling circa 1976 or 1977

Post by StevieG » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:00 pm

HSU Box - 50-lever Saxby frame Mickey.

And 1967/8 was precisely the period when Belle Isle Up and Copenhagen Junction boxes were abolished, frustratingly preventing my getting a 'look-in' to them.
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Re: KX Throat Remodelling circa 1976 or 1977

Post by Mickey » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:01 pm

StevieG wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:00 pm
HSU Box - 50-lever Saxby frame Mickey.
Yeah thanks Stevie it was posted several years ago by John confirming how large the Holloway South Up (box) frame was but I couldn't remember exactly how large it was and I nearly wrote 50 levers but opted for 40 instead.
StevieG wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:00 pm
And 1967/8 was precisely the period when Belle Isle Up and Copenhagen Junction boxes were abolished, frustratingly preventing my getting a 'look-in' to them.
Yeah I've read several times else where Stevie that Belle Isle Up (box) closed during 1968 but as I posted I can't remember seeing it during the few times that I travelled into & out of Kings Cross during the second half of 1967 and into 1968?. Maybe I did see but didn't notice it because as you would know the box stood beside the Up fast/Up main line and was quite a small structure so easy to miss going into Kings Cross and going in the Down road direction after leaving Gasworks tunnel I would have been looking to my left up towards Goods And Mineral Junction (box) and the array of semaphore signals exiting 'the goods yard' worked by Goods And Mineral Junction rather than to my right and the brick cutting wall of Belle Isle thus missing Belle Isle Up (box) altogether!.

As for Copenhagen Junction (box) I believe I've read several times in the past that it closed sometime during 1967 a short time before Belle Isle Up closed.

Mickey

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Re: KX Throat Remodelling circa 1976 or 1977

Post by StevieG » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:52 pm

It was when those two closed Mickey that the extra Down signals KC172 and 179 were put in.
While on the Up side, BIU had had slots on the Up Slow KC2 and UF KC14 signals at the entrance to Gasworks Tunnel, but not the parallel Up Relief's KC84.
When it went KC took over the UF-UR and US-UF points as 33 and 32 respectively with their new protecting KC1 and 13, and BIU's four former Outer Distant signals; and the 'engine line' and its points to all three Up roads were replaced by the ground frame-operated (Release 34, I think) emergency UF-DF crossover straight across the UR.
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