Track layout on south approach to Peterborough in the 50s & 60s

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Mickey
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Re: Track layout on south approach to Peterborough in the 50s & 60s

Post by Mickey » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:03 pm

R. pike wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:28 pm
I imagine despite the route being a little awkward it must have had it's advantages as you could get a freight almost up to the down main platform and have it ready to go. Spital Junction could do a simultaneous move onto the Up Slow too.
It is a little hard talking about a railway location like the Peterborough North area that I wasn't that over familiar with despite visiting it by train on around a dozen occasions around 1971-72 and before the major re-signalling of the area took place around 1973-74 when Peterborough Power Box came on line at different stages.

Anyway looking at the Spital Junction & Peterborough North track diagrams I suspect with regards to Goods trains that travelled south along the Up Goods Departure line from Westwood Junction towards Spital Junction that it was more preferable to route those types of trains at Spital Junction rather then running them straight along the Up Goods Departure line to Peterborough North box. Routing Goods trains at Spital Junction meant that they could either be crossed onto and run along the Up Slow line to Crescent Junction where they could either be held at Crescent Junction waiting a 'path' heading south along the GN main line or diverting them at Crescent Junction to run them towards the Peterborough East direction. Also I presume that it was more preferable to stand a Goods train on the Up Slow line at Crescent Junction rather than standing it on the Up Main line blocking that road with it's train trailing back through the North station to wait a path for the Peterborough East direction when it could be held (more or less out of sight to the public?) on the Up Slow line. Also starting a southbound Goods train at Spital Junction for the GN main line heading south through Peterborough and 'turning it out' onto the Up Main line at Spital Junction and running it through the North station may have been more preferable doing it that way than to run it along the Up Departure line passed Spital Junction and for the train having to negotiate the Up Goods Departure line between Spital Junction & Peterborough North box?.

Mickey

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StevieG
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Re: Track layout on south approach to Peterborough in the 50s & 60s

Post by StevieG » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:46 am

P.S. [ Mickey,
IF memory serves correctly (of diagrams seen, not actual location knowledge), I think, on the Up side, Westwood only worked the passenger roads, leaving Eastfield controlling the other Up lines to Spital Jn. Box / GF. ]
BZOH

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R. pike
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Re: Track layout on south approach to Peterborough in the 50s & 60s

Post by R. pike » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:16 pm

Westwood Junction..
Westwood Junction (early).JPG
and his mate from the other side, unfortunately with the Wizbang line shut..
Wisbech Junction.JPG

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R. pike
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Re: Track layout on south approach to Peterborough in the 50s & 60s

Post by R. pike » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:20 pm

Crescent Junction..
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Cresent Junction1.JPG

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Re: Track layout on south approach to Peterborough in the 50s & 60s

Post by R. pike » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:19 pm

For completeness here's Werrington Junction where the goods lines went back to more conventional arrangements..
Werrington Junction.JPG
I don't have anything for Fletton Junction. If anyone has one they'd like to part with...

I can post diagrams for New England, Nene Junction, Peterborough East, Turntable, Walton's and Helpston's and Wisbech Sidings East if there is interest.

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Re: Track layout on south approach to Peterborough in the 50s & 60s

Post by StevieG » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:18 am

Thanks v.m. R. pike.
So I stand corrected about Westwood, Mickey.
With an Up Coal - Up Main connection present, Up Goods trains could leave onto the Up Main there.
BZOH

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Re: Track layout on south approach to Peterborough in the 50s & 60s

Post by Mickey » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:35 am

It is nice to know Richard many of those old box diagrams have been saved and in your collection.

By the way do you know whatever happened to Welwyn Garden City's x4 LNER Thompson block instruments presuming they survived?. Possibly they are in private collections or maybe one or two made there way to the NRM at York?.

Mickey

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Re: Track layout on south approach to Peterborough in the 50s & 60s

Post by R. pike » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:49 am

Even a later Westwood Junction has that connection..
Westwood Junction.JPG

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Re: Track layout on south approach to Peterborough in the 50s & 60s

Post by Mickey » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:42 pm

Out of curiosity it would be interesting to know what the official 'walking route' was to get to and from Westwood Junction box if there were such things back then in the 1950s & 1960s(?) on B.R. because the box appeared to have been situated in between a number of frequently used running lines on either side of the box plus it appeared to have been a fairly 'long walk' to and from Peterborough North station?.

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Re: Track layout on south approach to Peterborough in the 50s & 60s

Post by cunningnLNER » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:52 am

Thanks Richard for all of those signal diagrams - I had seen a couple but not the rest. Very useful (though they will spawn more re-work I'm sure).
I can see the point in using both up goods 'routes' depending on circumstances though the myriad bits and pieces on the Up Goods departure line around North Box do seem over-complicated.
That picture of the excellent model is useful as it shows the starter for the bay platforms at the North end (4 & 5) which I had bodged in ignorance of the real arrangment.

Thanks again - it's great to hear the discussion on the running arrangements from people who know about it in real lief.

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Re: Track layout on south approach to Peterborough in the 50s & 60s

Post by R. pike » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:51 am

cunningnLNER wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:52 am

Thanks again - it's great to hear the discussion on the running arrangements from people who know about it in real lief.
I was probably around six or seven years old when these boxes closed. I just collect box diagrams from 'my' bit of railway. (KX - Barkeston Juncs and East Anglia). I do have a fairly good understanding of signalling etc and have designed and built several fully operational signalboxes both for my own use and on Heritage railways. I'm currently installing point rodding on a Network Rail job not too far from Peterborough.

I learn a lot from these discussions, especially from those guys who were actually there. For my part i just stood there with my mouth open trying to take it all in. Tempsford was my first box followed by Everton, Arlesey, Three Counties, Sandy, and Hitchin Yard. All were gone by the time i was ten years old.

One thing i still haven't got my head around is Peterborough. Working out the main line arrangements is easy. What went on along those goods lines is still a bit of a mystery to me. I've got a diagrams for New England North and South. One diagram hints at a New England East Box. I remember seeing New England Shunting Cabin 'A'. Both of these i have nothing for. I have no idea how any of the goods lines boxes worked to each other and i've never seen pictures of their interiors. I can work out what went on a Fletton Junction but again i've not seen pictures etc or seen a diagram.

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Re: Track layout on south approach to Peterborough in the 50s & 60s

Post by Mickey » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:38 am

R. pike wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:51 am
cunningnLNER wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:52 am

Thanks again - it's great to hear the discussion on the running arrangements from people who know about it in real lief.
I learn a lot from these discussions, especially from those guys who were actually there. For my part i just stood there with my mouth open trying to take it all in. Tempsford was my first box followed by Everton, Arlesey, Three Counties, Sandy, and Hitchin Yard. All were gone by the time i was ten years old.
Same here RP although I presume I am about 6 or 7 years older than yourself and remember the above named boxes quite well during the 1970-75 era and In particular Arlesey (box) which was and always has been a favourite GN box of mine, I always thought it was one of the most attractive looking boxes on the GN (and almost anywhere else on B.R.) and that was when Arlesey (box) still had a 2 line 'bottleneck' outside the box with a little used road crossing as well.
R. pike wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:51 am

One thing i still haven't got my head around is Peterborough. Working out the main line arrangements is easy. What went on along those goods lines is still a bit of a mystery to me. I've got a diagrams for New England North and South. One diagram hints at a New England East Box. I remember seeing New England Shunting Cabin 'A'. Both of these i have nothing for. I have no idea how any of the goods lines boxes worked to each other and i've never seen pictures of their interiors. I can work out what went on a Fletton Junction but again i've not seen pictures etc or seen a diagram.
I also remember New England Shunting Cabin 'A' and that would have been a nice little box to have been preserved?.

From personal memory Fletton Junction (box) closed around February 1973 I guess 'John the signalman' has the exact closure date of the box.

Richard have you still got those 6 levers that a friend and myself removed from Ferme Park South Down (box) during the early summer of 1971?.

Mickey

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Re: Track layout on south approach to Peterborough in the 50s & 60s

Post by thesignalman » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:15 pm

Mickey wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:38 am
From personal memory Fletton Junction (box) closed around February 1973 I guess 'John the signalman' has the exact closure date of the box.
You are sharp, Mickey - I think it was April but to get that close from memory is pretty spectacular!

It is a box I don't remember at all, for some odd reason. Maybe I was always sitting on the opposite side of the train as I passed. I remember seeing most of the others in my travels.

John
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