Christmas Poser

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john coffin
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Christmas Poser

Post by john coffin » Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:40 pm

We all know that many stations were miles from their nearest station, but some signal boxes are designated with a name which implies they are a specific distance from somewhere.
In the 1912 GNR paperwork I have access to, The Twentieth Mile box up or down is not actually at 20 miles from Kings Cross, which is where all dimensions on the GNR up to Shaftholme Junction are taken. Whilst they are only about 1/2 mile out, none the less, it is interesting.

So what other outside influence suggested that as a name? Are there any more stations, boxes or bridges that have a name of distance which is not truly accurate?
Happy Christmas and a Good New Year to all here who have helped me learn more about the wider LNER than my normal restricted GNR outlook.
Especially the modellers with really exquisite skills.

Paul

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R. pike
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Re: Christmas Poser

Post by R. pike » Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:22 pm

Twenty feet River signalbox was located next to the Twenty Foot Drain. Note where there are capital letters.

Hatfield Shed
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Re: Christmas Poser

Post by Hatfield Shed » Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:39 pm

john coffin wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:40 pm
...In the 1912 GNR paperwork I have access to, The Twentieth Mile box up or down is not actually at 20 miles from Kings Cross, which is where all dimensions on the GNR up to Shaftholme Junction are taken. Whilst they are only about 1/2 mile out, none the less, it is interesting.
But there was the 'Twentieth Mile Bridge' carrying Stanborough Lane nearby, just before when travelling in the down direction the branches to Hertford and Luton diverged East and West respectively. (The location could not be named Hertford, Luton and Dunstable Junction, because that Junction was in reality located at Hatfield, resulting in a rather impressive stretch of six parallel tracks between Hatfield and the points of divergence.)

john coffin
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Re: Christmas Poser

Post by john coffin » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:00 pm

The boxes I am referring to was between Hatfield Box 2 and Digswell Box if that helps.

The rest of my paperwork does not reference any other items to attach detail to, and frankly, I have never studied stations and boxes
so much before, so it is interesting to see what else we can discover.

I know there are some strange names on the M&GN
Paul

Mickey
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Re: Christmas Poser

Post by Mickey » Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:15 pm

Regarding Twentieth Mile Up & Twentieth Mile Down s/boxes situated about midway between Hatfield and Welwyn North stations when those two boxes were built sometime during the 1870s or 1880s(?) I suspect the surrounding country side was mainly farmland until the current Welwyn Garden City was built and absorbed the area from the 1920s onwards.

I am not sure if both the Up & Down boxes closed at the same time but there is a picture in existents of Twentieth Mile Up box in circulation. Twentieth Mile Up box was situated in the deep cutting next to the Hatfield-Hertford single line roughly where nowadays the single line comes off the 'Welwyn flyover' and re-joins the current Up slow line just to the north of the tall Twentieth Mile bridge. I am not sure of the date of closure of either box (they may have both closed at the same time?) but I suspect that both boxes would have been gone by 1926 when Welwyn Garden City (box) at the station was opened.

giner
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Re: Christmas Poser

Post by giner » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:25 pm

Langley Junction always seemed a bit odd to me. I know on early maps (pre Hertford loop) the sidings were labelled Langley Sidings, but the village of Langley is actually some five or six miles to the west on the Old Welwyn to Hitchin road.

giner
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Re: Christmas Poser

Post by giner » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:42 pm

Another Christmas poser then, albeit on a different tack, not being GN, is this photograph. A hundred of these carriages were built in 1900 for a specific area of this sprawling network. Have a go, then?
IMG_1476.JPG

john coffin
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Re: Christmas Poser

Post by john coffin » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:59 pm

LNWR Welsh lines by chance up around Holywell Etc?

giner
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Re: Christmas Poser

Post by giner » Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:11 am

Ooh, pretty close (pretty quick, too.) Come a bit farther south.

john coffin
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Re: Christmas Poser

Post by john coffin » Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:40 am

Being a GN man I tend only to think of the LNW and GN joint!!!!!!!!!!

However, it seems that maybe Shrewsbury and round there might well be a suitable location?

paul

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manna
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Re: Christmas Poser

Post by manna » Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:48 am

G'Day Gents

Didn't the LNWR have a healthy Welsh valley's traffic at one time ?

manna
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.

giner
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Re: Christmas Poser

Post by giner » Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:25 am

John: Shrewsbury would certainly be in the frame. But Manna, you're really homing in on this one. (Never takes long on here, does it?) :D

john coffin
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Re: Christmas Poser

Post by john coffin » Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:01 am

Up in Snowdonia around the slate mines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Paul

giner
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Re: Christmas Poser

Post by giner » Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:21 am

I was intrigued by this subject as I'm originally from the area. The following is from a Facebook post by a Mark Vrettos who I hope doesn't mind me broadening his quest a bit. I don't think he'd object. :)

Hello Folks, I’m restoring an old Railway Carriage at Blaenavon, to run back and forth to Big Pit Mining Museum. We have a small Station at the Museum that is ideally suited to these small Carriages. There were 100 built in 1900 for the Merthyr, Tredegar and Abergavenny network of lines of the LNWR. We were lucky to rescue this portion of a similar carriage which we decided we could convert it to the type that ran over the line. (photo below).
IMG_1479.JPG
I’m after any pictures, information and even parts to help the Restoration, in fact anything, we are open to any donations, that are gratefully received. The old picture is climbing the bank alongside Cyfarthfa Works.

https://museum.wales/bigpit/

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Re: Christmas Poser

Post by Hatfield Shed » Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:12 pm

Mickey wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:15 pm
Regarding Twentieth Mile Up & Twentieth Mile Down s/boxes situated about midway between Hatfield and Welwyn North stations when those two boxes were built sometime during the 1870s or 1880s(?) I suspect the surrounding country side was mainly farmland until the current Welwyn Garden City was built and absorbed the area from the 1920s onwards...
And very sparsely populated too. The GNR's coming made an enormous difference, because the roads were poor due to the geology of chalk overlaid with heavy clay, floods creating mires in winter, which then dried out completely in summer resulting in lack of water for draught animals. There are several examples of 'upper and lower' road route pairs: the upper on higher ground for winter, the lower following water for summer use.

Just how dire the roads were: North of the route of the Luton and Dunstable branch where it crossed the old Great North Road, can be seen what looks like a large excavation paralleling the remnant of the old Great North Road route. It was excavated, but accidentally by the traffic! Teams of horses would become mired in this flooded depression in wet winters, notoriously leading to drownings of horses and men. This was the real 'Slough of Despond' from which Milton drew the term...

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