Signalbox Track Layout Drawings found

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Derek_Revell
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Signalbox Track Layout Drawings found

Post by Derek_Revell » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:58 pm

I was going through my late father's belongings (Roy Revell), which had migrated into my attic after I cleared my Parents home, now I've retired I've been having a look through some Notebooks.

I've come across about 40 hand drawn Signal Box layouts starting at Woolmer Green and including as far as I can make out pretty much every signal box in a Northerly direction as far as Yaxley, these would have been done between late 1952 and 196?, I'm sure someone will know better than I, but as far as I can make out they may have been drawn by my dad, or maybe not, he may have been given this Notebook which looks like it was issued by the L.N.E.R - E 157 as that is what is embossed on the Front cover, the notebook is Dark Red, inside the front cover is "istrict nspector Hitchin" which I think is District Inspector Hitchin but there is no name, although it looks like someone has removed the portion of the cover that might have had a Name.

I first posted this info in the Model Railway Forum, but now I've been contacted by several people, I thought I'd better post here, I'm sure someone in "Admin" will know better where it should be.

Anyway I've scanned about 100 pages today, as there is another notebook which contains layouts in Cumberland and Westmoreland.

Don't PM me as I'm a newbie and can't reply. Kind regards Derek Revell (son R.Revell)

Mickey

Re: Signalbox Track Layout Drawings found

Post by Mickey » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:13 am

Hi Derek, when I knew and met your dad towards the end of 1973 when he learnt and signed Welwyn Garden City after the NX panel had replaced the lever frame in September 1973 I believe at that time he also worked Langley Junction, Stevenage North, Hitchin South, Hitchin Yard, Cambridge Junction, Three Counties, Arlesey, Biggleswade & Sandy on the main line although I don't recall him ever working Welwyn North circa 1972/73 when I was at Welwyn Garden City although there was two regular signalmen at that box at that time as it was only a two shift box (early & late turns) so the relief signalmen didn't get much of a look in also I am pretty sure that he worked the three GN boxes on the Cambridge branch as well at that time which was Letchworth, Baldock & Royston. Shepreth & Foxton came under the Cambridge area back then.

Mickey

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Re: Signalbox Track Layout Drawings found

Post by Derek_Revell » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:00 am

Hi Mickey,

I've also found Dad's diaries which he kept from 1948 - 1973, I need to have a look at them as I'm pretty sure he kept a record of his hours of work on the railway, though I'm unsure he he refers to the Box he was working at in the Diaries.

In answer to your points regarding my Dad's signalboxes he worked, I know for a fact that he worked at nearly all the boxes in his track layout books, both North and South, although I know he was working at Welwyn and Hatfield, but I can't be 100% sure, did you listen to the audio interview Greg Dash did with him, the audio files are downloadable from my web site, you can find my URL in my profile, I'll keep you posted on further bit and pieces as they turn up, I don't know about selling the track layout books, I think I should hang onto them till I'm certain they will go to a good home, maybe send them to the The Railway Museum in York, so they can be placed into their archives.

Best regards Derek Revell

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StevieG
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Re: Signalbox Track Layout Drawings found

Post by StevieG » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:20 am

As an aside to the subject of track layouts Derek_Revell, I wondered if you would like to know of a little tale indirectly concerning your Dad.
The reliefmen whom I knew, south of WGC and on into London, generally seemed to keep themselves very aware of which boxes their colleagues signed for and in particular, who was doing what week-by-week etc. (for one thing, so that they could know if, in their opinion, overtime was not being shared around fairly).
I was visiting one of them, the late Norman Greenwood, as likely as not on a Saturday morning at Hatfield No.2, one day around 1969/70, and he mentioned having just been asked at short notice by the roster clerk or Control if he would work an extra day imminently, to cover an otherwise open shift at Welwyn North box.
He said that he had said 'No', and that whoever it was then said that they would try Roy Revell next, to which Norman had replied 'Don't bother', as Roy was on Leave, and didn't sign Welwyn North anyway ! :D
Last edited by StevieG on Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Mickey

Re: Signalbox Track Layout Drawings found

Post by Mickey » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:17 pm

Regarding your dad I distinctly remember a brief conversation one day in Welwyn Garden City box over the employment by the railway of employing ''telegraph girls' along with telegraph lads at various busy s/boxes and I do remember your dad telling me in the same conversation that there had been at one time a 'telegraph girl' at Sandy (box) and I have a vague feeling he may have even named her(?) but apparently one reason against employing them in larger numbers by the railway was the lack of proper toilet facilities for young women at s/boxes back in the old days.

As for Roy working either Hatfield no.1 & no.2 boxes I don't recall him working either of those two boxes when I was at Welwyn Garden City between mid 1972 & early 1974 and as for Hatfield no.3 box that had already closed in late 1969. I think Roy worked most of the time around the Langley Junction/Stevenage & Hitchin area and as far north as Sandy on the main line and Royston on the Cambridge branch.

Mickey

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Re: Signalbox Track Layout Drawings found

Post by Derek_Revell » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:02 pm

Well as I stated in a previous post I'd come across my Dad's diaries in a shoe box, looking through them I've found that they start in 1948 to 1982, only 1 year missing 1949, that happens to be the year my Sister was born, maybe she got to them before me and has taken it as a keepsake.

Rather amazingly my Father has recorded the Signalbox he was working including the start and finish time, oh boy that's going to be a big spreadsheet.

Might correlate all the dates times and locations in a spreadsheet next week, it may take a while.

Mickey

Re: Signalbox Track Layout Drawings found

Post by Mickey » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:17 pm

Derek_Revell wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:02 pm
Rather amazingly my Father has recorded the Signalbox he was working including the start and finish time, oh boy that's going to be a big spreadsheet.
From a personal point of view Derek I would be interested in knowing the dates that Roy worked at Welwyn Garden City box especially during late 1973 and early 1974 period when I was still a telegraph lad at the box. I don't recall Roy working Welwyn Garden City when it was still a lever frame box pre-September 1973 although that doesn't mean to say that he never did work the box in an earlier time because he mite have 'signed it' but then 'let it go' and didn't bother working it for a number of years besides he probably had enough boxes to work at around Stevenage & Hitchin and down the main line to Sandy and also down the Cambridge branch to occupy his working week.

Mickey

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Re: Signalbox Track Layout Drawings found

Post by Derek_Revell » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:38 am

1962 Diary proves interesting, inside front cover a neatly folded £1.00 note, must have been there 57 years, slightly devalued now, I've found that my Dad was using a code for the boxes he was working, so I need to find out what those codes mean before I start, but he was working at the Hatfield Box as he mentions it by name, more information to follow.

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Re: Signalbox Track Layout Drawings found

Post by Dave Cockle » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:26 pm

I suspect Roy used signal box telegraph codes when entering details of his rostered turns in various boxes. The signalmens' rosters were at one time wired out by telegraph instruments and old habits die hard. I remember Bill Coe, the Traffic Assistants clark at Enfield Chase,in the 1970's writing relief signalmens' order out on paper the sending them out in the internal post. The boxes were always referred to by their telegraph code.

I believe many of these codes have been listed on this forum in a past posting.

I used to be signalman at Hertford North 1970 1972 and remember your dad acting in the capacity of policeman for single line working between
through to Cuffley during the electrification work.

Mickey

Re: Signalbox Track Layout Drawings found

Post by Mickey » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:29 pm

Derek_Revell wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:38 am
I've found that my Dad was using a code for the boxes he was working, so I need to find out what those codes mean before I start, but he was working at the Hatfield Box as he mentions it by name, more information to follow.
Hi Derek following on from Dave Cockle's post all the s/boxes that your dad would have worked at would have had 'telegraph codes' and StevieG and John 'the signalman' would probably have a full list of them but from memory I do remember a few of them for example on the main line-

Hatfield no.1 was HD
Hatfield no.2 was HH
Hatfield no.3 was JV
Welwyn Garden City was CT
Welwyn North was YE
Woolmer Green was WG
Knebworth was KR
Langley Junction was LC
Stevenage South was ??
Stevenage North was SG
Hitchin South was HF
Hitchin Yard was HC
Cambridge Junction was ??
Cadwell was ??
Three Counties was ??
Arlesey was ??
Biggleswade South was BG
Biggleswade North was ??
Sandy was ??

The Cambridge branch-

Letchworth was ??
Baldock was ??
Royston was ??

Mickey

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Re: Signalbox Track Layout Drawings found

Post by StevieG » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:31 am

Mickey wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:29 pm
Derek_Revell wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:38 am
I've found that my Dad was using a code for the boxes he was working, so I need to find out what those codes mean before I start, but he was working at the Hatfield Box as he mentions it by name, more information to follow.
Hi Derek following on from Dave Cockle's post all the s/boxes that your dad would have worked at would have had 'telegraph codes' and StevieG and John 'the signalman' would probably have a full list of them but from memory I do remember a few of them for example on the main line-

Hatfield no.1 was HD
Hatfield no.2 was HH
Hatfield no.3 was JV
Welwyn Garden City was CT
Welwyn North was YE
Woolmer Green was WG
Knebworth was KR
Langley Junction was LC
Stevenage South was ??
Stevenage North was SG
Hitchin South was HF
Hitchin Yard was HC
Cambridge Junction was ??
Cadwell was ??
Three Counties was ??
Arlesey was ??
Biggleswade South was BG
Biggleswade North was ??
Sandy was ??

The Cambridge branch-

Letchworth was ??
Baldock was ??
Royston was ??

Mickey
Mickey, Derek_Revell,
1. I have filled in the 'gaps' of those which Mickey listed but had no code for, [ in red ].
2. In case your Dad mentioned in his diaries, places a bit further south, north and/or north-east than the area Mickey has covered, I have added a few more [ also in red ]; [and more, in purple] of those codes from memory, in all three directions : E.g. he may even have worked outside near boxes that he didn't 'sign' to work in, but may also have recorded them by code. (NOTE: AFAIK, the boxes north of Cuffley, to Langley (exclusive), dating from around 1924, appear to have never had the telegraph.)
3. In view of the apparent task for which you need these, I have re-ordered them into alphabetical order of the codes, (below), in case this is of help. (But if you are uncertain of the location of any of the box names now listed, or find codes in the diaries that we haven't listed, come back to us for help if we can.)
4. Other boxes fall within the area of the combined list, but I don't recall ever knowing that they had telegraph codes : I have shown these in blue : Everton, Sandy Junction, Wood Walton.
5. ( You'll note that I have listed Arlesey and Ashwell with the same code - AL. This duplication is odd and might seem unlikely when they are not that far apart, although are neither on the same line nor on a common telegraph circuit as each other. I am a little suspicious that both are correct but noted both from official circuit cards [ though I may have made an error - 50 years ago ! ] )

Arlesey .................... - AL
Ashwell ................... - AL
Abbots Ripton ........... - AR
Biggleswade North ..... - BD
Biggleswade South ..... - BG
Baldock ................... - BK
Connington South ...... - CG
Connington North ...... - CN
Welwyn Garden City .. - CT
Paxton ................... - CV
Cadwell .................. - CW
Everton .................. - ??
Offord .................... - FD
Sandy .................... - FU
Hitchin Yard ............ - HC
Hatfield No.1 ........... - HD
Hitchin South ........... - HF
Huntingdon North No.1 - HG
Hatfield No.2 ............ - HH
Huntingdon North No.2 - HK
Holme .................... - HS
Hatfield No.3 ........... - JV
Cambridge Junction ... - KK
Knebworth .............. - KR
Langley .................. - LC
Langford Bridge ........ - LF
Letchworth ............. - LH
Three Counties ........ - LY
Meldreth ................ - MD
Marshmoor .............. - MF
St.Neots ................. - NX
Royston ................. - OY
Stevenage South....... - QJ
Tempsford .............. - PC
Potters Bar ............. - PO
Redhall .................. - RA
Stevenage North....... - SG
Sandy Junction ......... - ??
Shepreth ................ - SH
Stukeley ................. - SU
Wood Walton ........... - ??
Woolmer Green ........ - WG
Welwyn North .......... - YE
Yaxley ................... - YX

[ Edited to add additional information ; 00:38 a.m., 18-Jan.-2018 ]
Last edited by StevieG on Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:37 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Signalbox Track Layout Drawings found

Post by Derek_Revell » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:44 am

Thanks for filling in the blanks with the Telegraph Codes, makes a little more sense now, although Arlesey and Ashwell having the same code AL is a little bit confusing, I'm guessing Arlesey Box shut and the code was transferred to Ashwell, as maybe not all boxes had telegraph receiving apparatus.

I notice Dad worked at Everton (no TC) and LMR initials used at The Midland box at Hitchin (which I have a SLW Token No 1) which ran to Bedford.

No codes for Stevenage South, Paxton, Offord, Huntingdon No1 and No2, Stukeley, Abbots Ripton, Connington North and South, Holme, Ramsey and Yaxley, but I don't think Dad ever worked these, though he may have visited the box's or is it Boxes, I've a lot to learn.

My sister and I sprinkled Dad's ashes at the site of Cadwell Box, as it was impossible to gain access to the site of the LMR box.

Mickey

Re: Signalbox Track Layout Drawings found

Post by Mickey » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:40 pm

Derek_Revell wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:44 am
Thanks for filling in the blanks with the Telegraph Codes, makes a little more sense now, although Arlesey and Ashwell having the same code AL is a little bit confusing, I'm guessing Arlesey Box shut and the code was transferred to Ashwell, as maybe not all boxes had telegraph receiving apparatus.
Derek I would be more inclined to assume that the AL telgraph code is more likely to have been for Arlesey s/box rather than for Ashwell because at least from the beginning of the 1970s there wasn't a s/box at Aswell & Morden station on the Cambridge branch where as Arlesey s/box on the main line situated about halfway between Hitchin & Biggleswade didn't close until about 1976.

Mickey

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Re: Signalbox Track Layout Drawings found

Post by StevieG » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:35 am

Derek_Revell wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:44 am
"
Thanks for filling in the blanks with the Telegraph Codes, makes a little more sense now, although Arlesey and Ashwell having the same code AL is a little bit confusing, I'm guessing Arlesey Box shut and the code was transferred to Ashwell, as maybe not all boxes had telegraph receiving apparatus. .... "

" .... No codes for Stevenage South, Paxton, Offord, Huntingdon No1 and No2, Stukeley, Abbots Ripton, Connington North and South, Holme, Ramsey and Yaxley, but I don't think Dad ever worked these, though he may have visited the box's or is it Boxes, .... "
My apologies Derek, I omitted Stevenage South in the process of re-ordering the list. It was QJ.
As for the others north of St.Neots, I know several of those from memory as well but not all.
I'll dig out my notes when I can, and let you have them all at once.
Last edited by StevieG on Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Signalbox Track Layout Drawings found

Post by StevieG » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:48 am

StevieG wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:35 am
Derek_Revell wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:44 am
"
Thanks for filling in the blanks with the Telegraph Codes, makes a little more sense now, although Arlesey and Ashwell having the same code AL is a little bit confusing, I'm guessing Arlesey Box shut and the code was transferred to Ashwell, as maybe not all boxes had telegraph receiving apparatus. .... "

" .... No codes for Stevenage South, Paxton, Offord, Huntingdon No1 and No2, Stukeley, Abbots Ripton, Connington North and South, Holme, Ramsey and Yaxley, but I don't think Dad ever worked these, though he may have visited the box's or is it Boxes, .... "
My apologies Derek, I omitted Stevenage South in the process of re-ordering the list. It was QJ.
As for the others north of St.Neots, I know several of those from memory as well but not all.
I'll dig out my notes when I can, and let you have them all at once.
Derek_Revell , Mickey ,
In view of how far north that I now see your Dad's Herts.- Cambs. layouts extended Derek, I have just added what I have for St. Neots - Yaxley to my expanded code list post of 14/01/18.

I've nothing for Ramsey I'm afraid.
And as well as for Sandy Junction (also sometimes known as 'Sandy North') and Everton, there was Wood Walton, between Abbots Ripton and Connington South : I've no codes for any of these three.
Last edited by StevieG on Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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