Re-signalling 1970s KX-HT + Hertford Loop

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S&T
LNER J94 0-6-0ST Austerity
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:00 pm

Re: Re-signalling 1970s KX-HT + Hertford Loop

Post by S&T » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:12 pm

R. pike wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:00 pm
Hitchin South closure...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/32297024@N08/40985213831/
A very nice piece of history Richard.

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StevieG
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 2062
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:08 pm
Location: Near the GN main line in N.Herts.

Re: Re-signalling 1970s KX-HT + Hertford Loop

Post by StevieG » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:09 am

I have discovered a few rough notes from some weekly notices that might help your quest S&T.

- Hatfield NX panel was publicised as to have control transferred to WGC panel on Sun. 03rd March 1974, with no subsequent correction details appearing.

Re Hitchin events - a few titbits from the scraps of notes in the same way, of the same source :-
- Yard box was to lose control of the Up roads during the period, 21:05 Sat. 09/11/74 - 05:00 Mon. 11/11/74 (a few new signals controlled by Cambridge Jn. and/or South box).

- Yard box to close during Sat. 16/11/74 - Mon. 18/11/74 (with new colour-lights on Camb.Jn. box ('J'), as I previously mentioned).


Then, around Fins. Park (also no subsequent amendment/correction to details) :-,
- Fins. Park No.4 to close Sat. 20/04/74,(recently radically altered layout/signalling, including new temporary steeply falling Up Canonbury line down from the main line halfway to Holloway, transferred to control by No.6 box),

- Ashburton Grove to close on Fri. 31/05/74.

- About No.2 box dates; hold the presses : - My notes indicate something wrong amongst the previously-mentioned dates. I'll write again when I am sure that I've got things clear.
BZOH

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Mickey

Re: Re-signalling 1970s KX-HT + Hertford Loop

Post by Mickey » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:23 am

StevieG wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:09 am
Hatfield NX panel was publicised as to have control transferred to WGC panel on Sun. 03rd March 1974, with no subsequent correction details appearing.
That is about the time that I left WGC box when Hatfield No.2 box was closed and it's area was brought under the control of WGC NX panel. Prior to the de-commissioning of Hatfield No.2s NX panel the WGC NX panel (the Hatfield end) I remember had been covered in plastic wrapping covering that part of the panel since the WGC was commissioned in September 1973 also I have a vague feeling that the x4 single stroke block bell buttons that were inlayed into the WGC NX panel and had been named Hatfield were re-named New Barnet but very shortly after that I left the box initially bound for Finsbury Park No.6 but I changed my mind and went to Kings Cross loco as a secondman instead for around 18 months.

S&T
LNER J94 0-6-0ST Austerity
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:00 pm

Re: Re-signalling 1970s KX-HT + Hertford Loop

Post by S&T » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:31 am

StevieG wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:09 am
Re Hitchin events - a few titbits from the scraps of notes in the same way, of the same source :-
- Yard box was to lose control of the Up roads during the period, 21:05 Sat. 09/11/74 - 05:00 Mon. 11/11/74 (a few new signals controlled by Cambridge Jn. and/or South box).

- Yard box to close during Sat. 16/11/74 - Mon. 18/11/74 (with new colour-lights on Camb.Jn. box ('J'), as I previously mentioned).
Thanks StevieG.

This begs a further question.....When did the Hitchin NX panel (in Cambridge Junction signal box) get installed? 8-10 Feb 75 under SN72 states panel installed and Hitchin South migrated etc. But the dates for Hitchin Yard transfer to Cambridge Junction and closure are before that date.

So, was the Hitchin Yard transfers to Cambridge Junction non NX related? Or, was the NX panel actually installed earlier and had some limited control of the ex Hitchin Yard signals (unlikely!)? How were the new colour lights you mentioned controlled at CJ between Nov 74 and Feb 75?

Mickey

Re: Re-signalling 1970s KX-HT + Hertford Loop

Post by Mickey » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:44 am

The intervening 43 years fades the memory a bit well at least it does north of Hitchin but when Cambridge Junction box had a NX panel circa 1975 I can't remember if it took out Three Counties box and worked TCB with Arlesey?.

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StevieG
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Re: Re-signalling 1970s KX-HN + Hertford Loop

Post by StevieG » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:02 pm

StevieG wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:24 pm
" .... I've a feeling that No.2 was taken out of use at a different date, maybe only a week or three earlier, probably to enable the conversion works at a more leisurely pace than achieving it over a single weekend.
If so, taking the box out of use might well have needed only the publication of an item simple enough to have come out in Section C of the WON.
I don't recall all the other detail of the area/time, but as abolition of Ashburton Grove box isn't mentioned in your extract of Signalling notice 66, it seems that must have also happened at some other time; maybe at the same time as No.2 was temporarily closed. "
S&T wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:09 pm
Yes, I noted that as well StevieG. I always thought that Ashburton Grove was abolished at that same time as Finsbury Park no1.....but it appears not based on SN66.

So two questions for those that can remember:
1. When did Ashburton Grove get abolished?
2. What was the date that Finsbury Park no2 was temporarily closed prior to its re-opening?
thesignalman wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:49 am
S&T wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:05 pm
Question re Finsbury Park no2.
The statement (below) taken from the SN66, it obviously references the new IFS panel being installed as part of this stageworks.....but it states that FP no2 will be 're-opened'. I think this is just wording.....the fact that, as part of this works, it closes as a mechanical box and re-opens at the same date as an IFS controlled box. Is that correct? Or, is it suggesting that the box had closed as a mechanical box sometime earlier and is be re-opened again? I can't find any reference to the box being closed prior to this date.

BETWEEN FINSBURY PARK NO.2 - CANONBURY - HOLLOWAY: REMODELLING AND RESIGNALLING
During the period of this work from Friday to Monday, 7 to 10 June, 1974 the signal box at Finsbury Park
No.1 will be abolished together with all points and signals worked therefrom. New colour light signalling
together with full track circuiting wiII be installed, controlled by a new paneI in Finsbury Park No.2
signal box, which will be re-opened and the existing facilities at Finsbury Park No.3 signal boxes.
Yes, No2 box was "temporarily" closed 22/9/72 and re-opened 9/9/74. Final abolition was 13/9/75.

John
I have to say that I was astounded by the idea that Fins.Pk. No.2 Box would have been planned to be temporarily closed for 21 months for the resignalling or resurrected from a permanent closure after so long. Although such events may have happened a few times around the country, I'd have been even more surprised had either happened with No.2 without my remembering it.

So I'm pleased to say, S&T and John, that that seems certainly not to have been the case, as, again from my scrappy notes, I find that I had written from the WONs of the time that No.2 Box was to close (i.e. as a lever-framed box) during Sat. 1st - Mon. 3rd June '74; so, roughly as I had suspected, only the weekend before the date of Signalling Notice 66, which was when the box re-opened with only the IFS panel and the commissioning of the resignalling of its new area of control (formerly those of Fins.Park No.1, Ashburton Grove and a small bit of Holloway North Down, as well as its own).
And there seems to have been nothing significant occurring on the previously recorded first closure date of 22/9/72.
I will seek to submit this info to the SRS for consideration of amending their Register.

S&T wrote:
thesignalman wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:50 am
S&T wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:09 pm
1. When did Ashburton Grove get abolished?
May 1974

John
Excellent....thanks John
As in my last post, this was actually WON-publicised to happen on Fri. 31st May '74.
Last edited by StevieG on Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:47 am, edited 3 times in total.
BZOH

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Mickey

Re: Re-signalling 1970s KX-HT + Hertford Loop

Post by Mickey » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:48 am

I remember riding on a light engine (a Brush type 2) one night during the early hours of the morning during 1974 and noticing the signal arms on the Down Goods line home signal at Ashburton Grove box had been removed along with 'the boards' coming out of the Down siding although the box was still standing there but was in darkness.

Myself and a railway friend both visited Ashburton Grove box during the summer of 1971 one afternoon and there are a couple of photos that my friend took that afternoon one outside of the box and one inside the box of the small lever frame that are posted on this forum but on a different topic thread.

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