The LNER Encyclopedia

I am looking at the workings of Ripon station in the 1930s, and have a question regarding parcels trains.

I have the 1934 WTT, which shows a down parcels train arriving at Ripon at 9.50, and leaving at 10.15 to continue on its way up to Thirsk.

The problem I have is that a down Express Passenger arrived at 10.09 and left at 10.11. Ripon was a 2-track, 2-platform station, with no passing loop. So I am struggling to work out where the parcels train was when the passenger train arrived.
There was a bay platform, but it was very short - one coach max, and this train stopped at a number of stations. I can't see it would have been a single coach. But there was also a large goods shed - about 280' long. Would a parcels train be unloaded in a goods shed...?

The only alternative I can see is it went into a siding to be passed, and the departure time relates not to it leaving the station, but leaving the siding - which is possible, if maybe a little odd. Thoughts anyone...?

Most parcel trains stopping at intermediary stations just unloaded onto platform ,leaving staff to deal with them after the train left.

52H wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:37 pm Most parcel trains stopping at intermediary stations just unloaded onto platform ,leaving staff to deal with them after the train left.

That's what I thought too. But I wouldn't have thought the 'departure' time would be when it left a siding having been passed; but nor would it make sense to take the train back into the station for 2 minutes, when it had already been there for 20 minutes-odd; so I'm out of ideas as to where it was!

Parcels were dealt with by platform staff and would be received rather than "left", they could include contained animals etc.

Is there anything in the track plan to prevent it being run into the Up platform?

In the May 1934 WTT there is also an Up Goods and at around 10.oam an Up Stockton to Leeds express. So the Up line is busy too.

John

nutford wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:24 pm ...But I wouldn't have thought the 'departure' time would be when it left a siding having been passed...

Why not? That's a perfectly normal way to operate at that time, holding a train off the main line for the express to pass, and if the parcels train remained within station limits then it would be the time leaving Ripon. Parcels train arrives on Down platform, the packages are off loaded and put on as required, then the train moves into a siding to vacate the platform for the 10.09 Express. With the express gone, the parcels train then follows from whatever location it had been in. It needs the track layout of Ripon to see what movements are possible.

The following link shows a map from the late 1920s, with Ripon station being towards the bottom-left of the page, there's easily plenty of space for several sizable trains to be shunted to allow others to pass:

https://maps.nls.uk/view/125632144

Yes, it certainly could have been shunted to let another train past. It wasn't that I found that of itself surprising.

What puzzled me was that were that what happened I would have expected the 'departure' time to have been when it left the platform, not when having left, been shunted back down into the siding, and then finally continued its journey....

G'Day Gents

The railways had plenty of weird and wacky running practice's, So running into the platform, unloading, backing into a siding, to wait for the Express, is pretty normal, another thought, the Express, may, have dropped off parcels for the parcel's train to pick up and drop off at station the Express doesn't stop at. !

manna

nutford wrote: ↑Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:29 am What puzzled me was that were that what happened I would have expected the 'departure' time to have been when it left the platform, not when having left, been shunted back down into the siding, and then finally continued its journey....

If I recall, the "departure time" is when the train starts moving with intent to enter the next section of line, or with intent to leave the station limits.

Majormagna wrote: ↑Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:23 am

nutford wrote: ↑Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:29 am What puzzled me was that were that what happened I would have expected the 'departure' time to have been when it left the platform, not when having left, been shunted back down into the siding, and then finally continued its journey....

If I recall, the "departure time" is when the train starts moving with intent to enter the next section of line, or with intent to leave the station limits.

Then you have solved my problem - I didn't know that. The siding would have been beyond what I would have expected to be seen as 'the station limits', (although that might be a matter of which signal box did what rather than just what looked like the station!), but would have been in the same section I'm sure. Thanks!