LNER Locomotive Font

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Paul_sterling
NER J27 0-6-0
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 12:50 pm
Location: Durham

LNER Locomotive Font

Post by Paul_sterling » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:21 am

Morning folks,

I've been trying to ascertain the font used for 'LNER' on locomotives without success, I was wondering if anyone would be able to shed some light on it for me please?

Background is that I need to make some custom waterslide transfers for LHJC No.29, and the (at the very least current) LH&JC font is the same as that used by the LNER. I may make these myself, or commission one of the suppliers to do the transfers (likely to be infinitely better quality than my efforts)

Thanks in advance.
Paul.

john coffin
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 726
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:24 am

Re: LNER Locomotive Font

Post by john coffin » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:09 pm

Paul
depends on the dates, but for most of time LNER used Gill sans, or at least a version of it.
other, pre-grouping fonts are in this day of computing are much more difficult to relate.

Paul

Paul_sterling
NER J27 0-6-0
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 12:50 pm
Location: Durham

Re: LNER Locomotive Font

Post by Paul_sterling » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:52 pm

Thanks John, much obliged.

Cheers. Paul.

Darryl Tooley
LNER N2 0-6-2T
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:21 pm
Location: Briston, UK

Re: LNER Locomotive Font

Post by Darryl Tooley » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:40 am

The use of Gill Sans on locomotives was confined to the stainless steel insignia on some A4s and the post-war unshaded lettering. Nobody seems to want to put a name to the sans font used previously; I suspect this means that the letterforms were a product of the drawing office at Doncaster.

D

john coffin
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 726
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:24 am

Re: LNER Locomotive Font

Post by john coffin » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:11 pm

I am sure that actually Gill Sans came in after the introduction of the 1928 Flying Scotsman,
but I agree that it was used on the Stainless lettering on the Silver Jubilee.

I will see if I can find the book references that my ancient memory feels is back there in
the distance. :roll:

What is certainly true is there are very few people now who understand older fonts, and
can relate them to a more modern computer based one.

In addition, in the early post grouping era, almost everyone went to a font without serifs
to strike the ideal essence of modernisation that the new groups desired.

One thought is that of course the TV series Poirot with David Suchet has a stylised A4 in the
titles and therefore Art Deco style fonts. Perhaps the production company still exists, and someone
there might know what relevant fonts are used.

Paul

JASd17
LNER V2 2-6-2 'Green Arrow'
Posts: 1094
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:21 pm

Re: LNER Locomotive Font

Post by JASd17 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:37 pm

The Gill Sans font was on the Flying Scotsman headboard, not the locomotive lettering. Until the examples stated by Darryl.

John

Darryl Tooley
LNER N2 0-6-2T
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:21 pm
Location: Briston, UK

Re: LNER Locomotive Font

Post by Darryl Tooley » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:53 pm

Gill Sans was indeed introduced in 1928 and adopted for the LNER's printing almost immediately afterwards. Its use on the 'Flying Scotsman' headboard dates from 1932.

In my previous post, I forgot that the LNER totem, as used on the Q1, was also GS.

None of which helps Mr Sterling. I suspect it will be a case of looking for the closest match.

D

Paul_sterling
NER J27 0-6-0
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 12:50 pm
Location: Durham

Re: LNER Locomotive Font

Post by Paul_sterling » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:13 pm

Thanks guys.

Speaking to the painters of LH&JC No.29, they have used a letter style which is early LNER, and they too said it pre dates the gill sans typeface. More info to follow from them, but I think if it is "undesignate-able" I'll form the text using pictures of No.29 with its newest paint job, which is no bad thing to be fair, that way the model reflects real life!

Thanks gents.

Paul

john coffin
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 726
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:24 am

Re: LNER Locomotive Font

Post by john coffin » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:53 pm

Shildon certainly copied the lettering they had on the tender no 1002 when restored, but how accurate that was and it
depends on when and where it was last painted.

As for the fonts, from 1923 certainly they were no longer under control of the Loco drawing office at Doncaster
(if they ever were!) but rather under the control of what became later the Publicity office. They certainly controlled
the designs with both Flying Scotsmen in 1923 and 1928 in terms of livery and additional promotion activity.

The difficulty for us now is finding reference to what they did, so for instance, so far I have never found at Kew
any board minutes that relate to for instance the 1938 train and it refurbishment and presentation. I have also
not heard of anyone else finding it now.

Mind you, in terms of what the engines carried, the sheds and different works often took a different approach,
thus for instance whilst many J52/3's carried the Downcaster 6, some at Stratford used the ordinary one,
whilst Darlington used a different livery and lettering approach, many times.

Thanks for giving us another thread to pull at.

Paul

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