Signalbox register

[strang steel]

I have a question about old registers from the 1950s and 1960s.

What were the rules about filling in loco numbers and train headcodes in these registers? I have seen a number of interesting registers for sale on Ebay, but when I look at the close-ups of pages provided by the seller, the extreme right hand one is nearly always empty.

For me, if they have no loco information they are not a great deal of use - and later when 4-character headcodes were displayed, they are a great item for cross referencing against the relevant Working Timetables.

What was supposed to happen to them when the last page was full? Did they get sent to HQ, or were they stored locally; as I am sure they would be a legal document in the case of an inquiry or accident report?

[Dave Cockle]

I was a signalman on the GN Main Line and then the West Anglia line.

The practice on the GN was to put the train identity number in the remarks column. The GN had route codes for their suburban trains
and individual four digit identity number for each train.

On West Anglia the practice was to put the origionating point with scheduled departure time i.e 09:34 B'Stort.
This would be the 09:34 Bishops Stortford - Liverpool Street.

I don't think there were any specific rules as to what had to be recorded in the remarks column. There may have been local instructions, such as on the Great Northern Light Locomotives off Finsbury Park Diesel Depot for Kings Cross would have the destination (KX) and the departure time of the train the locomotive was to work was recorded.

[Dave Cockle]

Oh yes and I meant to say that old Train Register Books were usually kept on hand in the signal box concerned.

There was an instruction how long they were to be kept on hand. I think it was five years but I'm sure someone will correct me if this is incorrect.

If a train register was withdrawn for cross checking or an investigation in my experience it would eventually be returned to the box.

[StevieG]

Strang Steel, AFAIK it became common LMS practice (on ex-MR routes anyway I think) for loco numbers to be recorded in the Register, and many signal boxes received a side-hooded external light at one end, facing at a roughly cross-track angle, in order to look for loco numbers during darkness.

[thesignalman]

Absolutely right, Stevie. In the days before four-character head-codes, Control would advise the engine numbers for freight trains in busy areas to assist with correct routing if the driver forgot to toot up for his destination.

John

[Mickey]

I once bought a train register book from Collectors corner at Euston back in 1969 which from memory I think may have come from Fenny Compton box north of Banbury and may have been dated either 1963 or 1964 I can't recall exactly but on one page in the empty remarks column was written the word 'water' which may have referred to a steam loco 'taking on water' at the box?.

The importance of train register books in signal boxes which are legal documents has been on the decline in recent decades especially for train recording purposes since modern reporting systems (the TRUST system) was introduced across the whole country during the late 1990s that records all trains arrival & departure times as well as passing times at designated locations such as stations and junctions. Train register books where they still exist in boxes that still work Absolute block working with another box are a requirement and also at some smaller locations that work TCB as well with those train register books at those boxes being used mainly for just signing on & off purposes and for also logging the daily testing of any Emergency Alarms and block bells in the box that work with other boxes. Also Engineering possessions and AC & DC Isolations are also entered in the Train Register Book or as they are usually referred to these days as TRBs.

[strang steel]

Thanks to everyone who has replied. It would appear that the remarks column was prone to local interpretation. As for keeping them for five years, I suspect many were just thrown away after this period. The ones that survive may have been 'liberated' from boxes after closure or modernisation.

[STAFFORDA4]

I must confess to liberating the last Register from Bog Hall signal box at Whitby after it had closed AND was in the hands of the demolition team!
Initially I just kept it as a souvenir but I'm pleased to say it's now lodged with the North Eastern Railway Association archive.
Otherwise I suspect it would have just gone on a bonfire or in a rubbish skip.

[Mickey]

Around 50 years ago when a number of boxes were closing and before they were dismantled I managed to visit a small number of these redundant boxes and it was a common feature of all those boxes that the interior of the box especially the floor was a mess of rubbish of old paper notices and other railway junk including old train register books and even loose detonators were often to be found scattered around the box as well.

Usually signal boxes that had recently closed back then in the late 1960s & early 1970s would all usually have the box door left ajar all the block shelves would be cleared of all block instruments and the box track diagram would have been removed that the S&T staff on the night the box had closed although usually the lever frame would remain for a short while until the box was dismantled and usually the 'traffolyte' lever badges (lever description plates) on each individual lever would still be attached to the levers.

With regards to train register books in particular the B.R. books from the 1960s and probably from the 1950s previously had a harder outer cover to them as opposed to the later British Rail books from the 1970s onwards that had a flimsy outer cover.

[Mickey]

A redundant box that I wish I had took a look in was Sandy LNWR box which stood beside the GN main line in 1970. You could see into the box from the Up platform through it's open door and it was only a few steps up the staircase and into the box where you could clearly see it's LNWR stirrup lever frame and you could also see the rubbish scattered around the box floor as well from the station platform but even though the box was definitely redundant and it was a Sunday and nobody else was around (except a railman on duty in the station house) and it was very tempting to have a peek inside the box I didn't fancy getting a telling off!. Ha ha ha...

[strang steel]

Thanks for all the detailed info Mickey. I suspect that many many interesting piles of 'literature' would have ended up in the dustbin or on the bonfire.

However, I do have a small number of registers bought on Ebay, which have loco numbers in. One has led to conclusions which no one seemed to have come to before, and I have sent photographs of relevant pages to the researchers at the M&GN Circle.

This is a 1950s register for Cuckoo Junction box, just to the east of Spalding on the M&GN towards Bourne which has lots of loco numbers in the remarks. I was looking through it one evening and saw a couple of WD 2-8-0s listed, which I thought was strange as their RA was higher than the line's.

I mentioned this to others who knew more about these things than myself, and after much discussion we concluded that Spalding station were using the triangle between Cuckoo Junction, Welland Bridge Junction and the avoiding line, to turn locos; rather than have them cross all the tracks to use the turntable (which was too small for the biggest engines anyway). This would have saved a lot of hold-ups on the main routes as the avoiding line crossed all the other tracks on a long embankment with bridges.

This episode shows the occasional value of past registers to railway historians.

[Mickey]

All I can say John in regards to recording individual 'loco numbers' in a train register book is that normally it wasn't usually done by signalmen at boxes unless it was a 'local practice' that was done for a reason where it may have been relevant to either that signalman or another signalman in the next box along or the control?.

[Mickey]

I would like to get a copy of a book from Welwyn Garden City box from July 1972-March 74 when I was at the box doing the booking that would be interesting for me to have a look at although I presume no books from that time exist anymore.

[Hatfield Shed]

Worth checking with Herts Archive and Library Service (HALS) to see what they have available. Several librarians with railway interest working at that time, and you never know what books they may have picked up as opportunity presented.

[Mickey]

Maybe although many if not most old train registers are eventually dumped although some do get saved and find there way on to ebay these days.