The LNER Encyclopedia

Can anyone please provide me with information regarding the painting of The Tourist Stock Coaches during and after WWII, before they were repainted by British Raiways. I am in the process of building some CCW wooden coach kits for my Vintage 00 gauge layout and wish to finish them in a later livery than the Green & Cream.

Many thanks in advance, Chris Smith. Manchester

From 1942 I understand some of these were repainted in 'teak paint'. I don't imagine this would have been the 'scrimbled' version applied to post-war flush-sided carriages. I think the majority remained in green/cream up to nationalisation.

I hope someone passes by who knows a bit more!

Will

I'd agree with the teak paint on the sides from 42 to 49 Then crimson and cream until 56

A Tourist stock BTO is in the background of the photo on p171 of The Big Four in Colour 1935-1950. It is dark brown. It is next to a vehicle in varnished teak, which is noticeably much lighter in colour. Photo is Colour Rail ref BRE1120.

2562 wrote:I'd agree with the teak paint on the sides from 42 to 49 Then crimson and cream until 56

I'm not so sure. I would suggest they were repainted only if/when they went into the shops. So there would have been a very large overlap between them being all green and cream and all being brown.

Bill Bedford wrote:

2562 wrote:I'd agree with the teak paint on the sides from 42 to 49 Then crimson and cream until 56

I'm not so sure. I would suggest they were repainted only if/when they went into the shops. So there would have been a very large overlap between them being all green and cream and all being brown.

But what about their visibility from the air - and wasn't this why the Tyneside electric stock quickly went into mufti, as it were?

dont think blue and white was much of a camoflage,by the way it is only a few years since the camoflage was painted over on west monkseaton station ,as they thought that the newly erected concrete structure was easily spotted from the air.

Sorry - I meant that this was why the distinctive livery of the Tyneside stock was painted over - because they were deemed too visible from the air. I forget where I heard it but is that not the case?

hq1hitchin wrote:But what about their visibility from the air - and wasn't this why the Tyneside electric stock quickly went into mufti, as it were?

It was the reason the LMS royal train was repainted, but I'm not so sure about other trains. A passenger train can't really be disguised just by painting out the livery, and I haven't heard of the GW doing wholesale repaint during the war. Repainting from two colour liveries to brown looks like an economy issue to me.

Have just dug out the RCTS Greenie 10B and it seems red and cream for Tyneside electrics was deemed a 'high visibility livery' and a hazard in the event of enemy air attacks. Repainted in Marlborough blue (lower panels) and Quaker grey above a black trim line with grey roofs from 1941.

hq1hitchin wrote:Have just dug out the RCTS Greenie 10B and it seems red and cream for Tyneside electrics was deemed a 'high visibility livery' and a hazard in the event of enemy air attacks. Repainted in Marlborough blue (lower panels) and Quaker grey above a black trim line with grey roofs from 1941.

in the winters we had 39/45 the arcing of the shoes would have been a dead givaway[excuse the pun]i think some nevr got their blue/grey livery till after the war.in br days two shades of green where used.

robertcwp wrote:A Tourist stock BTO is in the background of the photo on p171 of The Big Four in Colour 1935-1950. It is dark brown. It is next to a vehicle in varnished teak, which is noticeably much lighter in colour. Photo is Colour Rail ref BRE1120.

Rather foolishly I found this picture a few days after posting my question!!

Regarding the repainting of stock, on all railways, during the war. I should imagine it was a case of 'needs must' because of shortages of everything. So stock would only have been repainted when it was absolutely necessary to protect the fabric (Wood or steel) of the vehicle. This would probably have applied after Dunkurque, when the 'real' war started and reached the Home Front in 1940.

I know the GWR repainted some stock in plain brown - described as Milk Chocolate - so I assume it was Standard GWR Brown diluted with white or cream paint and some new build stock was also painted this colour. The LMS used there Crimson Lake but didn't varnish it so it had a dull red finish. Lining of course was usually missing in all cases.

I've always assumed that the change from white to grey roofs on Gresley stock coming out of the shops was to make it less visible from the air. The "teak" paint was presumably the brown colour used for solebars which the LNER also slapped on to aging stock which was getting past economical titivating of the varnished finish.

I think the 'Tourist' buffet cars were painted brown early in the war as they replaced restaurant cars in some expresses, prior to virtually all catering being withdrawn. I have in my collection a photo from 1940 of a V2 on the GC at Barby with a train including what appears to be a 'Tourist' stock buffet car in brown.