Ferme Park south down s/box in 1971

[R. pike]

The raised surround to the lever plates has been removed at the bottom and holes are present and to me this suggests trafolite plates were fitted at some stage.

[Mickey]

The strange thing Stevie is that i still feel that there was some hand painted badges in the Ferme Park south down lever frame but not having taken any pictures or made any notes on the day i can't be totally sure?. I have been trying to think of what other boxes in the London area that i bunked into that may have had painted badges but all the other boxes i am sure had trafolite lever badges and Ferme Park south down keeps coming up in my mind as the box for some reason?. Yes i thought that those levers were from Ferme Park south down as well (Richards picture) and like i said before the 6-levers that we took out of the lever frame were on the right of the frame the 'high numbers' end. I have even thought a bit more about when we took the levers from the frame because i have a vague memory that maybe we never took the very last lever because there may have been a problem getting it free from below?. Anyway an interesting picture from Richard and interesting that he was asking about the Ferme Park south down frame having any painted lever badges as well in the first place?.

[Mickey]

It was a good days work that day 43 years ago at Ferme Park South Down box a nice sunny day i recall back in the spring/early summer of 1971 it was a pity we didn't taken any photographs of the event.

A friend and myself arrived at the box sometime between 9:30-10:00am after getting a train up from WGC and during the course of the morning managed to dismantle 6 levers from the lever frame with there associated slides and quadrants plus a redundant s/box closing switch that was left on the block shelf all taken away with a covering letter with permission from British Rail.

After finishing up at the box in the early afternoon we managed to carry the 6 levers and there associated slides and quadrants plus the s/box closing switch across to Harringay station and load them all into the brake compartment of a mid afternoon train from Kings Cross to WGC fromed of block enders (Inner suburban mon-corridor stock) i recall.

I wonder whatever happened to those 6 levers out of Ferme Park South Down? (a loaded question).

[StevieG]

Mention of Ferme Park South Down made me wonder if you ever picked up on something about conversational use of these box names Micky ['South Down', 'North Down', 'South Up', ('North Up') ].

As I recall it, whenever anyone in the late 1960s referred to any of the three (four, not too many years earlier) Ferme Park boxes during conversation, usually the full name(s) was spoken, but if anyone mentioned a box by using only these geographical elements of name(s) (e.g. 'South Down', 'North Up'), they were normally referring to the relevant similarly differentiated Holloway box(es).

[kudu]

Funny, but i've never seen any pictures of Ferme Park south down s/box anywhere in railway books or magazines at all for some reason or other i suppose the location wasn't to good a place to photograph being well off the platforms at Harringay West station unless one took a picture of the box from a passing train?. Micky

Try "The Book of the Great Northern - An Engineering Commentary" Part One Kings Cross to Welwyn Gdn City by Peter J Coster, Irwell Press 2010 ISBN 978 1 906919 30 6. Page 111 has an external and internal view. South Up, North Down and North Up all follow. One or two other boxes have also crept in, you'll find!

Kudu

[Mickey]

Funny, but i've never seen any pictures of Ferme Park south down s/box anywhere in railway books or magazines at all for some reason or other i suppose the location wasn't to good a place to photograph being well off the platforms at Harringay West station unless one took a picture of the box from a passing train?. Micky

Try "The Book of the Great Northern - An Engineering Commentary" Part One Kings Cross to Welwyn Gdn City by Peter J Coster, Irwell Press 2010 ISBN 978 1 906919 30 6. Page 111 has an external and internal view. South Up, North Down and North Up all follow. One or two other boxes have also crept in, you'll find!.

Yeah thanks kudu iv'e seen that book in the Ian Allan shop in Waterloo and glanced at it several times, yes theres some nice photographs in it especially a rare one of Ferme Park South Up which i just vaguely recall seeing standing redundant beside the Up Goods nos.1 & 2 lines(?) about 1967 at the midway point where the 'Harringay flyover' crossed the fast & slow lines shortly before it was dismantled.

[Mickey]

Mention of Ferme Park South Down made me wonder if you ever picked up on something about conversational use of these box names Micky ['South Down', 'North Down', 'South Up', ('North Up') ].

As I recall it, whenever anyone in the late 1960s referred to any of the three (four, not too many years earlier) Ferme Park boxes during conversation, usually the full name(s) was spoken, but if anyone mentioned a box by using only these geographical elements of name(s) (e.g. 'South Down', 'North Up'), they were normally referring to the relevant similarly differentiated Holloway box(es).

I always referred to the s/boxes between Kings Cross and Wood Green especially by there full-names such as Wood Green 4 iv'e always called Wood Green Up box no.4 or Wood Green 2 iv'e always called Wood Green Up box no.2 if someone had mentioned 'South Down' i would have assumed that was Holloway South Down that was being referred to also?.

My own quirky exceptions being two of the Finsbury Park boxes. Finsbury Park no.5 & Finsbury Park no.6 iv'e always just referred to as Finsbury Park 5 & Finsbury Park 6 without mentioning 'the number' the rest of the Finsbury Park boxes iv'e always mentioned the number i.e. Finsbury Park no.2 or Finsbury Park no.3 etc etc...

Going back to Ferme Park South Down...

It only occured to me yesterday morning 43 years after the visit to the box that the "redundant" block-switch (s/box opening & closing switch) that we took off the block shelf may have still been 'active' although i can't honestly recall if any wires were disconnected from the switch?. Although IF it was still 'active' then the removal of that block-switch i presume would have caused a 'block failure' between Finsbury Park 5 and Ferme Park North Down s/boxes?.

[StevieG]

" .... It only occured to me yesterday morning 43 years after the visit to the box that the "redundant" block-switch (s/box opening & closing switch) that we took off the block shelf may have still been 'active' although i can't honestly recall if any wires were disconnected from the switch?. Although IF it was still 'active' then the removal of that block-switch i presume would have caused a 'block failure' between Finsbury Park 5 and Ferme Park North Down s/boxes?. "

Normally, I'm sure it would've done.
But I wonder if in this case, with AFAIR the box being in the N/SN Notice (from April 1969 onwards?) as 'temporarily closed until further notice', but with all signals left in place including the Down Goods stop signals 'off' all the time, if there was in fact no intention that it would re-open, perhaps the block switch had already been by-passed....
.... But if all the other block instrumentation had already been removed from the block shelf, maybe not! .... ?

[Mickey]

" .... It only occured to me yesterday morning 43 years after the visit to the box that the "redundant" block-switch (s/box opening & closing switch) that we took off the block shelf may have still been 'active' although i can't honestly recall if any wires were disconnected from the switch?. Although IF it was still 'active' then the removal of that block-switch i presume would have caused a 'block failure' between Finsbury Park 5 and Ferme Park North Down s/boxes?. "

Normally, I'm sure it would've done.
But I wonder if in this case, with AFAIR the box being in the N/SN Notice (from April 1969 onwards?) as 'temporarily closed until further notice', but with all signals left in place including the Down Goods stop signals 'off' all the time, if there was in fact no intention that it would re-open, perhaps the block switch had already been by-passed....
.... But if all the other block instrumentation had already been removed from the block shelf, maybe not! .... ?

From memory Stevie on the day of our visit in the early summer of 1971 all the signals that were controlled by Ferme Park South Down had been abolished and removed from there signal posts plus the block shelf was cleared of block instruments except the wooden cased block-switch (i think it was positioned to the left of the block shelf?) and of course the track diagram had been removed as well. My friend done all the diconnecting that day at one point he was even underneath the box for a while disconnecting those 6 levers out of the frame with spanners and wrenches which i recall was a bit of a struggle for him taking several attemps by him to get them free out of the frame leaving me alone in the box watching the passing trains.

[StevieG]

" .... leaving me alone in the box watching the passing trains."

I remember how odd it felt being alone like that in a box when you shouldn't really have been there.
And my solitary visit, sometime in 1969/70, to FPSD was like that. I think it must've been a Saturday afternoon when I'd gone to Hornsey 1 'by arrangement', and on being armed with a standard box key and assured that both FPSD and FP North Down were switched out and the yard was unstaffed (perhaps it was a Bank Hol. weekend), happily accomplished taking my customary sketch/notes of both boxes (diagram, lever badges, shelf layout).

I wouldn't have been able to deal with, or accommodate back home, parts of a frame and wouldn't have examined how to go about legally obtaining some, or physically doing the removals (how unadventurous), so, credit to you.

[Mickey]

" .... leaving me alone in the box watching the passing trains."

I remember how odd it felt being alone like that in a box when you shouldn't really have been there.
And my solitary visit, sometime in 1969/70, to FPSD was like that. I think it must've been a Saturday afternoon when I'd gone to Hornsey 1 'by arrangement', and on being armed with a standard box key and assured that both FPSD and FP North Down were switched out and the yard was unstaffed (perhaps it was a Bank Hol. weekend), happily accomplished taking my customary sketch/notes of both boxes (diagram, lever badges, shelf layout).

I wouldn't have been able to deal with, or accommodate back home, parts of a frame and wouldn't have examined how to go about legally obtaining some, or physically doing the removals (how unadventurous), so, credit to you.

My friend Alan Dollimore (onetime telegraph lad at WGC box circa 1962-63) obtained permission and authority from British Rail in writing to visit the box and take away any redundant equipment he found he basically just asked me to come along to help him i reckon, it's a pity i don't have any photographs to post although i have a feeling he may have took several photographs for himself?.

[Mickey]

I wouldn't have been able to deal with, or accommodate back home, parts of a frame and wouldn't have examined how to go about legally obtaining some, or physically doing the removals (how unadventurous), so, credit to you.

As previously posted on another thread my friend Alan Dollimore who i accompanied to the box on that day in 1971 had layed 2 lengths of standard guage p.way which was 'well ballasted' at the 'top end' of his back garden believe it or not at his family's bungalow at Codecote near Old Welwyn in Hertfordshire back in 1970-71 i have subsequently wondered occasionally down the years if that section of p.way is still laying in that back garden still after 44 years?.

The idea was to construct a x6 lever ground frame with the 6 redundant levers, slides & quadrants taken from Ferme Park South Down and set them up beside his 2 lengths of track in his back garden but i never saw that happen and about a year after the visit to Ferme Park South Down i lost contact with him for the rest of the 1970s.

This was the same fella who told me around 1968-69 that he had thought about acquiring the redundant railway land around Ayot (on the Hatfield-WGC-Luton-Dunstable branch line) and developing it into a 'preserved railway site' but obviously nothing came of this idea but the fella certainly didn't lack personal drive and ambition.