Finsbury Park s/boxes circa 1970

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Mickey
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Re: Finsbury Park s/boxes circa 1970

Post by Mickey » Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:11 pm

The picture with the Cravens unit heading off along the Down slow no.1 line note the tail lamp on the rear bottom left of the unit also the brick ramp heading towards Finsbury Park 7 (the old Edgware branch) has been demolished as well and the Brush type 2 is still in two tone green British Railways livery.

Some of that point rodding seen in the same picture must have been re-routed after the brick ramp was demolished because from memory the point rodding for no.15 points in the the Down slow no.1 line to the Down fast line with it's associated FPL rodding ran a short way along the brick ramp (towards Finsbury Park 7) before turning through a 90% degrees angle downwards via a couple of cranks down the brick wall to rail level and then through another couple of cranks at the facing points ends. I can't remember now for certain how the the point rodding for the trailing ends of no.15s arrived at the trailing points?. It either ran even further along the brick ramp before turning through another 90% degrees angle downwards via another crank down the brick wall to the rail level and then through another crank and a short length of point rodding into the trailing ends of no.15 points or the point rodding for the trailing end of no.15 points decended at the same place at the facing end of no.15 points and then ran in a straight direction towards the trailing end of no.15 trailing points in the 'normal' way 'trackside' until the rodding reached the trailing end of no.15 points and then turned 90% degrees via a crank and into the trailing points ends?.

No.6 signal beyond the box in the picture (the stop signal that read along the Down slow no.1 line towards the Down slow no.1 starter no.7 signal with the Down slow no.1 line to Down fast line 'board' beside it) from memory that no.6 signal had a nice 'bounce' on it when the arm was returned to danger!.

Mickey

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StevieG
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Re: Finsbury Park s/boxes circa 1970

Post by StevieG » Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:29 am

R. pike wrote:The best i can muster for FP5..
Finsbury Park 5lr.jpg
And a very good 'best muster' it is RP !
By about 1968 there was much more TC-ing (everywhere except the Down Goods I think), and the Down Slow 1 line Homes (5, etc.) had been replaced by a right-hand sited, left-hand bracket with a single arm and 3-way stencil route indicator above the track; the last of the & 4-way 'vertical'-multi-armed home signals here to be converted this way.
(The 2-armed similar examples over at No.4 Box lasted until the end of course.)
BZOH

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Mickey
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Re: Finsbury Park s/boxes circa 1970

Post by Mickey » Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:29 pm

StevieG wrote:
R. pike wrote:The best i can muster for FP5..
Finsbury Park 5lr.jpg
And a very good 'best muster' it is RP !
By about 1968 there was much more TC-ing (everywhere except the Down Goods I think), and the Down Slow 1 line Homes (5, etc.) had been replaced by a right-hand sited, left-hand bracket with a single arm and 3-way stencil route indicator above the track; the last of the & 4-way 'vertical'-multi-armed home signals here to be converted this way.
Obviously they are the 'boards' that I remember Stevie with the single stop arm and the stencil type route indicator.
StevieG wrote:(The 2-armed similar examples over at No.4 Box lasted until the end of course.)
Those semaphore signals at Finsbury Park 4 were spoilt towards the end circa 1973-74 with the removal of a number of arms being abolished due to some major track alterations outside and to the south of Finsbury Park 4. A full size stop signal arm the lower arm was removed from both the Up slow & Up goods line platform starting signals at the south end of Finsbury Park station (on the Up slow line a bracket post and on the Up goods line a straight post) leaving just the one full size arm the 'top arm' (although originally the 'top arm' read via the Canonbury line) that read towards the 'directing signal gantry' right outside the box. The abolished signal arm(s) on both those posts (in reality the 'top arms' that read towards the Up Canonbury line and also a bracket signal with a full size stop signal arm plus x2 miniture arms that read into East Goods Yard sidings at the back on Finsbury Park 4 box and stood just outside the box) was subsituted by a 'miniture arm' on each of the the Up slow & Up goods line platform starting signal post(s) that read into a dead end siding at the back of Finsbury Park 4 box and which was formerly the Up Canonbury line. Also three full size signal arms one a stop signal and two distant signals were removed from the 'directing signal gantry' outside the box when the Up Coal line was abolished from Finsbury Park 4 southwards towards Holloway South Up (formerly Holloway North Up).

It was fairly hard to write the above post without getting to over compilcated but what they did in simple terms was to swap the 'meaning' of the top & lower stop signal arms around on the platform starting signals at the south end of Finsbury Park station on both the Up slow & Up goods lines. Originally the 'top arms' read towards the Canonbury line and the 'lower arms' read towards the Up slow line 'directing signal gantry' outside Finsbury Park 4 but when they re-signalled the layout at Finsbury Park 4 and they abolished a stop signal arms off both of the platform starting signals on the Up slow & Up goods lines they kept the 'top arms' that formerly read towards the Up Canonobury line and instead they read towards the Up slow line 'directing signals gantry' outside the box with the 'lower arms' being abolished.

From a vague memory I visited Finsbury Park 4 sometime around 1971-72 and it was like stepping back into the first decade of the 20th century!. The interior of the box was quite gloomy even in daylight and I vaguely recall there may have been a large piece of pattern carpet on the lino floor up against some of the Dutton & Co lever frame?.

Mickey

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StevieG
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Re: Finsbury Park s/boxes circa 1970

Post by StevieG » Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:25 am

Mickey wrote: " .... Those semaphore signals at Finsbury Park 4 were spoilt towards the end circa 1973-74 with the removal of a number of arms being abolished due to some major track alterations outside and to the south of Finsbury Park 4. .... " etc.
You're strictly right on all that detail Mickey (and well remembered, by the way).

By saying they 'lasted until the end' I really meant that, rather than being changed as a local improvement or renewal, they stayed unaltered until the early part of the fairly short period until completion of resignalling, when changes for those wholesale upheavals really set in, with simplification, removals and layout alterations seeming to take place so much of the time.

( I wonder if that remnant of the Up Canonbury line, retained and re-signalled mechanically as a siding, was ever used during its fairly brief existence; with the only way to leave it being a 'wrong' direction propelling shunt back into the station, presumably slotted or released by No.6 Box : The 'siding' itself was mostly on a falling gradient from the main line, which might be a worry for stabling stock on it, depending on the actual gradient and the type & weight of the stock. And of course while a multiple unit would potentially have been okay, any hauled normal move into it would have the loco at the buffer stop end.)
Last edited by StevieG on Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mickey
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Re: Finsbury Park s/boxes circa 1970

Post by Mickey » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:46 pm

StevieG wrote:( I wonder if that remnant of the Up Canonbury line, retained and re-signalled mechanically as a siding, was ever used during its fairly brief existence; with the only way to leave it being a 'wrong' direction propelling shunt back into the station, presumably slotted or released by No.6 Box : The 'siding' itself was mostly on a falling gradient from the main line, which might be a worry for stabling stock on it, depending on the actual gradient and the type & weight of the stock. And of course while a multiple unit would potentially have been okay, any hauled normal move into it would have the loco at the buffer stop end.)
Yes your correct about that siding Stevie which was formerly the Up Canonbury line towards Finsbury Park 1 because on reflection it did seem a bit pointless creating a new single road siding on a falling gradient away from Finsbury Park 4 for a couple of hundred yards ending at a set of buffer stops?.

Also as you correctly point out as well Stevie from a signalling point of view if the signalman in Finsbury Park 4 had for example a stabbled DMU on that single siding road and he wanted to bring the DMU back into either the Up Goods or Up Slow line platform the signalman in Finsbury Park 4 when he had a 'clear block' back to Finsbury Park 6 in the platform road that he was going to bring the DMU back into he would have to send the 3-3 bell Blocking Back Outside Home signal to the signalman in Finsbury Park 6 and once it was acknowledged by him put the block indicator to 'Train On Line' and then set the road up to bring the DMU back out of the siding road and back into the Up platform that he had 'blocked' with the signalman in Finsbury Park 6 with. Once the DMU had completed it's movement back into the Up platform and stopped and the driver had changed ends and moved off southwards out of the Up platform and the platform line was again clear the signalman in Finsbury Park 4 after replacing the 'boards' behind the moving DMU heading south would then give the 2-1 bell Obstruction Removed back to Finsbury Park 6 and once it was acknowledged by the signalman in Finsbury Park 6 place the block indicator back to 'Line Blocked' or 'Normal'.

Mickey

Mickey
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Re: Finsbury Park s/boxes circa 1970

Post by Mickey » Tue May 30, 2017 8:00 am

The view looking south from Finsbury Park station towards Kings Cross direction with signal boxes Finsbury Park 4 (Up lines) to the left and Finsbury Park 3 (Down lines) to the right.

The photograph below. I would say the photograph is dated around 1972/73 after much track & signalling rationalisation had taken place at Finsbury Park 4 in readiness for the GN re-signalling & electrification scheme a few years later.

www.rcts.org.uk/photographs/mystery/G-236-34.jpg

The photograph below. Finsbury Park 4 (s/box) former Up lines semaphore starting signals bracket signal post after the individual stop semaphore signals including Holloway South Up's motorised semaphore distant signals were all abolished and the dolls (individual signal posts) were removed. These temporary colour light signals were controlled by Finsbury Park 4 (s/box) and only lasted for a short period of time circa 1973-74 while the Up Canonbury line was temporarily re-routed from Finsbury Park 4 (s/box) running parallel with the Up slow line then turning a fairly sharp left and then down a fairly steep embankment towards Finsbury Park 1 (s/box). The x3 signals read from left to right were the left-hand signal with the x2 route indicators was the straight route from the Up Canonbury line to the Up Carriage line towards Holloway South Up (s/box). The top left-hand route indicator from the Up Canonbury line to the Up Goods line towards Holloway South Up (s/box) and the lower left-hand route indicator from the Up Canonbury line to the Up Canonbury via Finsbury Park 1 (s/box). The middle signal the Up slow line starting signal towards Holloway South Up (s/box). The right-hand signal the Up fast line starting signal towards Holloway South Up (s/box).

www.rcts.org.uk/photographs/mystery/G-236-35.jpg

The photograph below. The view taken from 'leaning out of a carriage window' and looking southwards towards Holloway in the far distance. Note Ashburton Grove's semaphore stop signal showing 'off' for 'the Creep up' which was primarily a 'engine & carriage' line that originated outside Finsbury Park 2 (s/box) and then passed under the GN main line passing Ashburton Grove (s/box) then climbing a incline towards Holloway North Up (s/box) the fact that the stop signal is showing 'off' probably indicates that Ashburton Grove (s/box) was 'switched out' at the time the photograph was taken meaning it was closed. The building to the left was part of Western sidings DMU depot and the signal gantry seen in the distance was Finsbury Park 3 (s/box) Down lines distant signals. The running line seen to the left of the train was the 'Down Canonbury line' that ran from Finsbury Park 1 (s/box) and headed towards Finsbury Park 3 (s/box) and into Finsbury Park station.

http://www.rcts.org.uk/cache/photograph ... 14.780.jpg

Mickey

Mickey
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Re: Finsbury Park s/boxes circa 1970

Post by Mickey » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:21 pm

Finsbury Park station looking south circa 1970 as a Brush type 2 (5639) passes behind the back of Finsbury Park 4 (box) hauling a rake of inner suburban non-corridor stock off the Up carriage line and on into East Goods yard carriage sidings.

http://blog.linesidephotographics.co.uk ... ack-white/

Mickey

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