High Dyke Branch

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workev
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Re: High Dyke Branch

Post by workev » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:31 pm

John,

Yes I saw that, but the fireman said that they continued to Aldwarke with the train. Have you got the times of the trains arrival at Aldwarke and its departure back towards Retford and Grantham? I didn't think that the times added up.

Ian
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strang steel
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Re: High Dyke Branch

Post by strang steel » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:36 pm

I'm afraid not, sorry.

The Doncaster area does not include Rotherham. I only have it as far as Attercliffe Junction at 3.12am northbound and 10.45pm southbound.
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Re: High Dyke Branch

Post by ROY@34F » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:47 pm

Hi Ian & John,
I have'nt heard of this class J train to Retford;obviously before my time.
But I can confirm the later working ('60,'61,'62 or thereabouts).I have been on it myself,a class C, No.1 speed fully fitted train,with an A3 in my cases, all the way to Aldwarke,turning off the main line at Doncaster,doing a circular route to Aldwarke and then onwards to rejoin the main line at Retford and on to Highdyke of course,with the empties.
I'm not sure of the route,but I recall we were "under the wires" on part of it in the sheffield area.
Maybe you chaps Knew all this anyway !
Kind regards,Roy.
,

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Re: High Dyke Branch

Post by workev » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:27 pm

Roy,

Thanks for the additional info; but it only adds to the intrigue. Lou Baldwin told me that they essentially delivered the iron ore to Aldwarke and then picked up the empties to return home; somewhat similar to your recollections.

As they reached the destination, the return journey cannot be the same train mentioned by John as the times do not match without an engine change before Aldwarke.

I will have to look at the Doncaster or Sheffield WTTs if I can find one.

Strange. In the 1956/57 WTT the train ran on MWSo, so the return would be TuThSuO, of which there is nothing!

Ian
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Re: High Dyke Branch

Post by 52D » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:47 pm

Roy the route sounds like you came from Aldwarke through Masborough on to the old route towards Chesterfield then Woodhouse and Beighton to get to Retford to complete a circle that way. You would have come past where the Electrics handed over to steam en route the name of the changeover place eludes me but if Boris is looking in he will put me right.
EDIT - Thanks SS Rotherwood it was.
Last edited by 52D on Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hi interested in the area served by 52D. also researching colliery wagonways from same area.

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Re: High Dyke Branch

Post by strang steel » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:51 pm

Rotherwood?
John

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Re: High Dyke Branch

Post by workev » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:04 am

In the 1950s the engine was turned, so they re-traced their steps back to Grantham.

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Re: High Dyke Branch

Post by strang steel » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:47 am

In the WTT I was quoting from (59/60) it appears the up and down trains would cross at Retford where there was a booked crew change, so maybe the Grantham crew only went that far in that year?
John

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Re: High Dyke Branch

Post by workev » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:44 pm

I think the details for this must be on the Sheffield WTTs, Section G.

If anybody has one of these I would appreciate it if they could look at the details on this train.

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Re: High Dyke Branch

Post by ROY@34F » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:38 pm

That's interesting 52D,about the route we took.As I say,I'd not much idea,it's a long while ago,and was dark,as it was an evening departure from Highdyke,arriving back there in the early hours,as has been mentioned.
Ian's talk with Lou Baldwin made me smile to myself.I remember Lou ;relieved him and his driver once in the down main platform at Grantham on a B1 with a pigeon special going north.It appeared he'd struggled a bit up Stoke bank, he'd one hell of a fire on..right up to the level of the firebox door all the way to the front of the box. I said to Arthur Musson,my driver,"what am I to do with this Arthur".He said to just shut the flap ,and hope,see how we go.As far as I can remember it was quite an uneventful journey,so I suppose the fire settled down as it would be relatively easy going as far as Newark ,anyway.I think we went to York with the pigeons.
When I saw Lou again he said "how'd you get on with that f...... engine the other day" .What could I say.
Happy days.
By the way I don't think the vacuum fitted tippler wagons were built till the early 60's,which would explain the slower loose coupled timings in earlier years,possibly only working to Retford.
Kind regards,Roy.

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Re: High Dyke Branch

Post by Andy@34F » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:42 am

peejay wrote:Reading through this thread I haven't noticed any reference to the Industrial Railway Society http://www.irsociety.co.uk/. In their Industrial Railway Record archive there is an article by Eric Tonks published in December 1963 entitled Ironstone Tramways of the Midlands - (3) The Ore Mining Branch of United Steel, which just happens to be the Highdyke branch. The article deals more with the business end of the branch rather than the interchange with the ECML. The Easton adit mine is now the site of the Christian Salvensen "chip factory", as it is known locally.

Hope this is of interest.

Peter
It is indeed a useful piece of reference material. Here: http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/3+4/Ironstone_3.htm

The map regarding Colsterworth Mines is slightly incorrect as it shows the High Dyke branch crossing the Woolsthorpe - Skillington road. It ran parallel to the road to the crossroads, where Skillington Road box was situated; though there was a short stub called Woolsthorpe Road at the west end of the village that did cross the branch.

Nowadays so much has returned to agriculture or other uses. Looking at satelite maps even the offices and workshops at Colsterworth seem to be lost to housing. These were laterlly used as an industrial estate, including a depot for Vacu-lug Tyres.

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Re: High Dyke Branch

Post by DaveF » Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:14 am

Andy@34F wrote:
peejay wrote:Reading through this thread I haven't noticed any reference to the Industrial Railway Society http://www.irsociety.co.uk/. In their Industrial Railway Record archive there is an article by Eric Tonks published in December 1963 entitled Ironstone Tramways of the Midlands - (3) The Ore Mining Branch of United Steel, which just happens to be the Highdyke branch. The article deals more with the business end of the branch rather than the interchange with the ECML. The Easton adit mine is now the site of the Christian Salvensen "chip factory", as it is known locally.

Hope this is of interest.

Peter
It is indeed a useful piece of reference material. Here: http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/3+4/Ironstone_3.htm

The map regarding Colsterworth Mines is slightly incorrect as it shows the High Dyke branch crossing the Woolsthorpe - Skillington road. It ran parallel to the road to the crossroads, where Skillington Road box was situated; though there was a short stub called Woolsthorpe Road at the west end of the village that did cross the branch.

Nowadays so much has returned to agriculture or other uses. Looking at satelite maps even the offices and workshops at Colsterworth seem to be lost to housing. These were laterlly used as an industrial estate, including a depot for Vacu-lug Tyres.
I always dislike writing anything which contradicts something written by another member, but feel that in this instance it is justified, I hope Andy@34F won't mind.

Andy mentions that the High Dyke branch didn't cross the Woolsthorpe to Skillington Road. He is indeed right as far as the latter days of the line are concerned, I used to drive along that road every day in the early 1970s on the way to work near Lincoln from my home in Buckminster and the railway was along the north side of the road as far as Skillington Junction, it crossed the road just west of there.

However the road was realigned to allow more quarrying to take place, the level crossing is clearly shown as per the IRS map on the 1947 Ordnance Survey map, 1" series, sheet 122. This map was based on the 1916 survey, with later corrections.

According to Eric Tonks, writing in "The Ironstone Quarries of the Midlands Part VIII South Lincolnshire", now published by Booklaw, the road was moved in 1966 to it's present position to allow extraction of more of the iron ore to the North of the High Dyke branch west of Colsterworth.

The roads altered were Crabtree Road from Buckminster to Crabtree House on the (old)A1, Mill Lane towards Skillington and Woolstorpe Road from Crabtree Road to Woolsthorpe.

I hope this is some use.

David
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workev
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Re: High Dyke Branch

Post by workev » Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:47 pm

I managed to speak to Lou today, and as with Roy I can confirm that this working did not change engines en route. In the mid 1950s, the engine delivered the iron wagons, uncoupled, turned, picked up the empties and went back to Grantham.

In the 1960s the engine did not turn, but went back to Retford via another route without turning.

So until I see a Sheffield WTT to look at the timings my only conclusion is that the WTTs don't reflect the actual operation.

Also, I have never seen any other reference to the train being hauled by a V2!

Ian
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Re: High Dyke Branch

Post by workev » Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:50 pm

ROY@34F wrote:That's interesting 52D,about the route we took.As I say,I'd not much idea,it's a long while ago,and was dark,as it was an evening departure from Highdyke,arriving back there in the early hours,as has been mentioned.
Ian's talk with Lou Baldwin made me smile to myself.I remember Lou ;relieved him and his driver once in the down main platform at Grantham on a B1 with a pigeon special going north.It appeared he'd struggled a bit up Stoke bank, he'd one hell of a fire on..right up to the level of the firebox door all the way to the front of the box. I said to Arthur Musson,my driver,"what am I to do with this Arthur".He said to just shut the flap ,and hope,see how we go.As far as I can remember it was quite an uneventful journey,so I suppose the fire settled down as it would be relatively easy going as far as Newark ,anyway.I think we went to York with the pigeons.
When I saw Lou again he said "how'd you get on with that f...... engine the other day" .What could I say.
Happy days.
Roy.
Roy, I think you and Lou were there for the last few years of steam, so expect more questions.....

Ian
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Re: High Dyke Branch

Post by sandwhich » Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:07 pm

The only recollections of the High Dyke branch I have was that after steam was finished Class 31 diesels were used with tablet catchers fitted on the cab doors drivers side, perhaps someone in the know could enlighten me on this point. The branch closed around 1972 when the iron ore needed was imported and by then Class 47 diesels had taken over these workings, for a while there were many train crews at Grantham just sitting around until early retirements and redundancy moves elsewhere took hold. In its time Grantham was a very busy railway town with not only these High Dyke workings but also it was an East Coast changeover and relief point for many East Coast expresses, with the engine shed (34F) and other freight traffic, signal boxes, track and station staff many local people were employed on the railway, now of course there is probably only a few who work on the railway at Grantham. There are of course many other places up and down the country that can say the same thing. Changing times indeed.

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