GATESHEAD WORKS PAINT SHOP ROUNDHOUSE

[kudu]

The so-called Newcastle & Carlisle roundhouse was located immediately south of the running tracks at Gateshead near Greenfield Junction (where the line to the High Level Bridge diverged), the location also known as Chaytor's Bank. At some point it became the paint shop for Gateshead Loco Works and was demolished in the 1960s. Any amplification of these bare details would be welcome, but I guess that if Ken Hoole couldn't provide more, no-one else can, either.

I am trying to establish what this building looked like. The only illustration I have seen is in BRILL September 2004 p531, in the article on Gateshead shed. The full-page 1953 picture itself is intriguing: basically it shows N10 69095 at the ancient coaling stage, but through the end of the stage we have a tantalising glimpse of the roundhouse roof. This is cone-shaped - typical of early roundhouses - but at the bottom two protruding gables can clearly be seen, while the roof itself appears polygonal rather than circular. With the gables (presumably one gable for each track) the shed seems to resemble one of the roundhouses at York South (used by the Midland), illustrated on p122 of Hoole's "North Eastern Locomotive Sheds".

In the October 2004 BRILL, in part 2 of the article on Gateshead shed, there is a double-page 1947 OS map of the area (pp8-9). Here the roundhouse is shown "straightened" on its north-western side to accommodate running lines. This is the side facing the coaling stage caught in the BRILL photo. Otherwise the building seems circular rather than polygonal.

In short, it's difficult to "square" the photo with the map. I would expect gables to produce a polygonal shape on the map. Or were the gables only added on its NW side as part of the shed straightening there?

Anyone who remembers the building or has better sources than me are invited to help - sorry I can't reproduce the photos.
More generally, I'd appreciate any references to the Works here - I can't believe there was room for a major shed AND works on this cramped site!

Kudu

[redtoon1892]

Look here:-

http://ronfisher.fotopic.net/p40948077.html

http://ronfisher.fotopic.net/p40948076.html

The metal item in pic 2 foreground is a coal loco loading shute from the coal stage.

[redtoon1892]

http://ronfisher.fotopic.net/p39530098.html

If you look carefully at this pic you can see the roundhouse roof below Barnes Close flats block third from left, will give you a prespective to where it stood
I remember it well before it was demolished. The works were opposite the roundhouse and the main sheds to the South.
It was indeed a very cramped shed which didnt even have a turntable that could turn a pacific, these were turned on the triangle.

As I have said many times its "Greenesfield" not Greenfield.

Hope this helps.

[BJamieson]

If the very specific location of Greensfield Junction has traditionally been spelt that way by the railway then surely it should continue to be referred to as such, although it would clearly be incorrect to refer to Greensfield Junction in the Greensfield area of Gateshead. The NER got it wrong years ago but it wouldn't be the only instance where that happened and no doubt in some cases the "wrong" spelling became the new accepted version. There's nothing immutable about the way place names are spelt - the town where I was brought up used to be spelt Dunse (well before my time I hasten to add) but is now Duns, for example.

Bill

[redtoon1892]

Greensfield is the wrong spelling - period.

That is unless the O.S. / Local authority, traffic signs, local health centre, the business centre, electoral roll and the Post Office all have it wrong which I very much doubt.

"In 1831 a locomotive works was established by the Newcastle and Darlington Railway, later part of the York, Newcastle and Berwick Railway. In 1854 the works moved to the Greenesfield site and became the manufacturing headquarters of North Eastern Railway. In 1909, locomotive construction was moved to Darlington and the rest of the works were closed in 1932."

[kudu]

Many thanks for those excellent pictures, redtoon.

With those gables it follows the pattern of Middlesbrough and the so-called Midland shed at York South, as I suspected. But it looks as though it was built with its shortened roads on its straight side rather than being subsequently altered when the running lines were installed there, as I had assumed. Maybe its an illusion of perspective in your photo, but if the gables on the straight side are indeed parallel then the (converging) tracks inside cannot "match" the gables here, which seems odd given the support columns inside. Your second photo (I never expected an interior view as well!) suggests that the tracks do correspond as you would expect, though the first of the shortened roads is, I reckon, on the far right of this picture and leaves the issue unresolved.

As for Greenfield/Greenefield/Greenesfield, I fear I have inadvertently stirred a hornet's nest. I took my spelling - "Greenfield" - from the 1947 OS map I quoted. But in the BRILL article I referenced Ian Sixsmith cites the 1856 OS map as referring to "Greenesfield Railway Workshops" and later says Gateshead was often known as "Greensfield". I will only add that such discrepancies are not unknown, but I would guess that the 1947 OS spelling, which drops the "s" as well as the (optional?) "e", is simply a mistake,

Anyway, I am most grateful for the unexpectedly full response to my query.

Kudu

[BJamieson]

Redtoon, the Ordnance Survey got spellings wrong on numerous occasions - Gaelic names in Scotland are a prime example - and as Kudu says, the 1947 OS plan which appears in BRILL has managed to render the spelling as "Greenfield Junction", which is hardly indicative of infallibility.

But this is not the issue - what I am saying is that if the railway had normalised the spelling as "Greensfield" (which seems to have been the case, particularly with reference to the junction), then it is perfectly correct to use this spelling in a late 19th / 20th century context within the railway boundary - in fact, I would go so far as to say that it would be wrong to use any other version. Outwith the railway, there's no disputing that the extra 'e' should always be included.

Kudu, I wouldn't worry about stirring up a hornet's nest. - the subject doesn't have the same emotional resonance for me as it does for Redtoon and this will probably be my last word on the subject!

Bill

[61070]

Although I've no special knowledge of Gateshead shed and works I've seen (and read) a descriptive and illustrated (including a layout plan) account of the works as it was in the 1880s or 1890s which was published in either Engineering or The Engineer. If you guys aren't aware of this, and if it might help with kudu's research, I'll have a look for it next time I'm at the reference library.

[45669]

I've just come across this topic which has links to two photos that I took in 1960. Those pictures used to be on a website called Fotopic, but this went belly up in 2011 and I reposted the pictures to Flickr.

Here are the links if anyone's still interested in them:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/train-pix ... 473883362/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/train-pix ... 473883362/

There are some more pictures from the North East in this album if anyone would like to see them:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/train-pix ... 6473883362

TTFN,

Ron.

[Trestrol]

Part of the back wall did/still exists. Not easy to see but visible from the top floor end windows of Network Rails Raven House.