LNER Buffet Car

karlrestall · Post by **karlrestall** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:01 pm

Does anyone have any pictures of a Gresley Buffet car? Preferably of the buffet counter or facing the counter and preferably in the LNER period, as I am doing some research for a MSTS interior that I am hoping to create.

Regards

Karl

Colombo · Post by **Colombo** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:55 pm

Karl,

There are several Gresley Buffet cars preserved but their interiors have been much modified since LNER days, with formica table tops and so on. Gone are the individual arm chairs.

The late David Jenkinson, the Curator of the Carriages in the NRM collection wrote a series of books about the development of the railway carriage. It is difficult now to imagine the luxurious interiors of the first class carriages that graced the best trains at the turn of the century, but his books bring them to life. I have a copy of British Railway Carriages Of The 20th Century. Volume 1: The end of an era 1901~22 by Jenkinson, David, but this does not cover the period you want.

I think that you need British Railway Carriages Of The 20th Century. Volume 2: The Years Of Consolidation, 1923-53 by Jenkinson, David. Abe books have a number of his titles for sale, but this one is one of the most expensive.

My book has lots of photos of the interiors of carriages, but they are all in black and white. I doubt if there are many original photos in colour, perhaps you may have to use your imagination a bit.

Colombo

karlrestall · Post by **karlrestall** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:14 pm

Columbo, I don't mind if they are black and white or colour. I have ready access to a LNER buffet car as I work on the NYMR, but this has things missing such as the display counter, and the part walls separating the seating area and the bar area. I will have a look for thoes books

Thanks again Columbo.

Regards

Karl

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:12 pm

There is a nicley restored example in the NRM, As part of the Flying Scotsman Story

karlrestall · Post by **karlrestall** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:24 pm

Yes I have seen that, but stupidly I didnt take any photographs.

Regards

Karl

Post by **richard** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:54 pm

Looks like a good book recommendation Colombo - I've added both volumes to my list of books to get!

Unfortunately the list grows more quickly than I can buy the books

Richard

sawdust · Post by **sawdust** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:34 pm

Well Karl, firstly there were 2 variations of interior of Gresley buffets, although one may only have been used in the plywood/steel panelled tourist stock. Somewhere we have a photo showing the view of the counter you are after, this was our main source of reference for the interior of 641. The NRM has the drawings of the missing parts from 641s interior. You should consider making contact with John Curtis at Pickering, who has conducted the research for LNERCA at the NRM and Birmingham public library.

The colour scheme used in 641 was based on best matches of modern materials to samples of materials found during the restoration.

It is interesting that the colours used in the interior of this 1937 built vehicle echo the exterior colours the the CORONATION and WRLtd. stock.

Gresley Buffet cars never had arm chairs. The tubular steel chrome plated chairs in 641 are originals recovered from the railway institute at York.

641 was originally an electric coach so would not have had a gas flue for the boiler in the counter.

All the best.

Sawdust.

sawdust · Post by **sawdust** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:40 pm

Ben wrote:There is a nicley restored example in the NRM, As part of the Flying Scotsman Story

I'm afraid to say that the NRM buffet car has neither a correct interior or exterior!

It is a halfway house between LNER condition and the BR modified condition.

LNERCA's 641 is the most authentic buffet car to date and I'm not just saying that because I did most of the joinery!

Sawdust.

karlrestall · Post by **karlrestall** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:12 pm

so the tubular structure that I assumed was a column was a gas flue that should not actually be there then?

Regards

Karl

sawdust · Post by **sawdust** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:59 pm

karlrestall wrote:so the tubular structure that I assumed was a column was a gas flue that should not actually be there then?

Regards

Karl

That is correct Karl.

All the best

Sawdust.

karlrestall · Post by **karlrestall** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:00 pm

So why was it put in then?

Regards

Karl

x568wcn · Post by **x568wcn** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:01 pm

Yes, the NRM example was in BR Colours at one point!

Don't know if these help

sawdust · Post by **sawdust** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:12 pm

karlrestall wrote:So why was it put in then?

Regards

Karl

Part of the BR rebuild was to fit these coaches with standard propane equipment.

We kept this because 25mph would not generate enough power! and also the coach only has 1 dynamo and regulator now. which is a BR era stones set up. All the buffet refurbishments differed slightly with some having a wolverton dynamo and reulator fitted.

Sawdust.

sawdust · Post by **sawdust** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:24 pm

x568wcn wrote:Yes, the NRM example was in BR Colours at one point!

Yes they all were - several made it into blue and grey livery including 641 (9129).

Photo dave coxon (not me)

Sawdust

Norfolkman · Post by **Norfolkman** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:07 pm

Here's another - this is E9128E (LNER 51769) was restored at the North Norfolk Railway in the mid-1980s in teak and recently outshopped from Weybourne C&W works in BR Crimson and Cream.

Norfolkman