reopening of line shut by Beeching

[Kestrel]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... 1960s.html

[Iron Duke]

Morning Kestrel,

This is as it is.... (or was rather)
Sounds good, would miss the steam over the preserved section though.

ID

[PinzaC55]

It would be a totally common sense idea and for that reason it will never happen. HS2 is a "vanity project" like the Millennium Dome and the Olympics.

[Bill Bedford]

It would be a totally common sense idea and for that reason it will never happen. HS2 is a "vanity project" like the Millennium Dome and the Olympics.

..Or the M1 / M6

[53C]

From what you read in the press more and more people are turning away from HS2,
at the current rate it stands a good chance of never proceeding.! Or being delayed until some other scheme comes along.

[Bill Bedford]

From what I see most of the opposition comes from old fogies who won't be around to see it completed.

[strang steel]

I can understand using redundant trackbed where it exists, but how are they going to get through Leicester and Nottingham where the track of the GC has been mostly obliterated?

And, what happens at the London end? It does seem strange that with Eurostar at St Pancras, they cannot envisage a scheme where HS2 services terminate there as well, even if it does mean diverting the Midland services to Marylebone (tin hat time there - I think). A cross platform interchange with Manchester and Paris services might actually show some joined-up railway planning for a change.

There is a point near Neasden where both the Midland and GC run parallel, if my memory is correct. I am sure they could construct some novel high speed crossing area where lines 'swap sides' as it were.

[kudu]

There is a point near Neasden where both the Midland and GC run parallel, if my memory is correct. I am sure they could construct some novel high speed crossing area where lines 'swap sides' as it were.

You are thinking of West Hampstead, where the Midland and Met run parallel, with the North London squeezing in between them. Of course it's possible to create a fancy new link but such works are beset with problems in dense urban areas. This is the main problem for the entire scheme, I guess.

Kudu

[kudu]

The HS2 case is unconvincing on many grounds.

Having failed to rouse enthusiasm for saving 20mins to Birmingham proponents have now seized on the capacity argument. But this fails on 3 counts:

1 HS2 is in the wrong place. The WCML is not the most congested part of the network.

2 Extra capacity is needed now. But HS2 is almost over the horizon. We need to think of the problems of 2025, not 2013, if we think HS2 is the answer. But what will energy cost in 2025? The extra speed comes at a huge price in terms of extra energy.

3 HS2 or any other HS scheme is a poor way of expanding capacity. Halve the speed and you double the capacity. Probably halve the construction cost too. This is where the GC proposal is attractive, though there are inevitable problems when you try and access large cities, even at more moderate speeds.

Kudu

[PinzaC55]

From what I see most of the opposition comes from old fogies who won't be around to see it completed.

Or old fogies who have seen this kind of thing before and can see their taxes spiralling down a plughole to pay for a railway they will never be able to afford to travel on?

[PinzaC55]

The HS2 case is unconvincing on many grounds.

Having failed to rouse enthusiasm for saving 20mins to Birmingham proponents have now seized on the capacity argument. But this fails on 3 counts:

1 HS2 is in the wrong place. The WCML is not the most congested part of the network.

2 Extra capacity is needed now. But HS2 is almost over the horizon. We need to think of the problems of 2025, not 2013, if we think HS2 is the answer. But what will energy cost in 2025? The extra speed comes at a huge price in terms of extra energy.

3 HS2 or any other HS scheme is a poor way of expanding capacity. Halve the speed and you double the capacity. Probably halve the construction cost too. This is where the GC proposal is attractive, though there are inevitable problems when you try and access large cities, even at more moderate speeds.


Kudu

I have looked at Leicester on Google Earth and the only impediments to reopening the GCR there appear to be a very large multi storey car park and a gaggle of cheap industrial units, although there are obviously several large missing bridges.
If the sums of money talked about for HS2 were brought to bear, the car park and units would soon disappear and the bridges would be rebuilt.

[strang steel]

Alternatively given the money they want to lavish on HS2, they could instead electrify the entire GB network, including the Far North and Mallaig lines, reopen the Waverley route, and build a whole new fleet of electric stock to go with it.

[marksouthcoast]

That is far to simple to happen.

[Cypherus]

A tale of the haves and have nots if I ever saw one.

To late the have nots begin to realise the myopic thinking that drove the Beeching portfolio as it set out political conditions, Now referred to as Spin', to justify closure and disposal of this nations rail transport network depriving future generations of the benefits it could have given the public in this day and age mainly due to a lack of will to spend the required monies on a system that had been ground almost to dust by decades of mismanagement and graft.

To late the have nots begin to realise the utter failure of a plan to sell off piece meal what remained to entities that would operate them under the constant pressure of conflict of interest costing the tax payer millions monthly in subsidies hidden from there scrutiny under the guise of commercially sensitive information mainly due to the utter lack of political will to formulate an integrated transport policy and direction for the nation.

To late the have nots will realise that HS2 is not the epic step forwards they are looking for when after spending millions on public enquiries and government committees they will be stung with the cost of the build, the cost of the subsidies required to operate it and reward shareholders for decades to come while in the main being excluded from it's use on the grounds of cost.

The haves however have been living off the fat that was this land lining up to snuffle in the trough at the expense of the public purse for decades now.

The Haves are again lining up to do likewise with HS2 while at the same time crippling it's potential at the outset so ensuring there future financial gains from it.

The Haves are again setting the ground rules that ensure this country does not get the integrated transport system it so clearly needs unless they benefit financially.

Sadly the public corporate memory only stretches between what was on page three to what is on page three tomorrow, a fact not missed by the haves and politicians alike and the decades and millions expended on the channel rail line and cross rail by this nation as a whole before even a single mile of track was laid only serves to ensure that HS2 will follow suit, the few will benefit and the nation as a whole gain little if anything from it.

I'll get my coat.

[markindurham]

OK, all good points being made. However, simply upgrading existing routes, with all the disruption involved, isn't the solution either. Case in point - the WCML upgrade. Cost a huge amount of money, caused delays and disruption for years, and will have to be upgraded again in the very near future because it's again going to run out of spare capacity. Will folk accept more upheaval?

Far better to build a new route (or rebuild an old one, but that has issues as discussed above) which can then take traffic away from the existing lines, thus freeing up capacity there.

Damned if they do; damned if they don't.