Non corridor branchline stock in the north east

John B · Post by **John B** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:23 am

I am doing some research on what types of carriage stock were used on branchlines such as the Withernsea, Hornsea, Pickering to Whitby and the Scarborough Whitby coastal routes.

I am particularly looking at the 1950 to 1957 pre DMU period and would like some recommended books that include some colour photos.

I have checked several books and the custard and creams were usually confined to mainline duties, I have heard it said that the non corridor stock for branchlines would either be painted brown, be varnished teak or painted crimson, (not the carmine and custard) can anyone else confirm any of this?

Cheers

Colombo · Post by **Colombo** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:31 pm

John,

I do not have any albums of colour photos that are solely of that area, but I do have a some some books with nice colour photos of trains in the NE in the 1950s.

I can recommend "On North Eastern Lines " by Derek Huntriss. This 80 page book includes the following.

Page 66 Battersby, Class A8 with a maroon Thompson non corridor Brake sec May 58
Page 67 Brotton, Standard 4 2-6-4T with crimson Thompson non corridor brake sec May 58
Page 68 Guisborough Class L1 with mixed maroon stock May 58
Page 69 Whitby, B1 with Maroon Mk1s July 58
Page 70 Esk Valley, G5 with clean bright Crimson Thompson non corridor stock. 1954
Page 71 Kirkham Abbey, D49 with brown or dirty crimson Thompson non corridor stock. April 54
Page 72 Ditto, D49 Gresley Corridor stock, mixture of teak and blood and custard.

Basically, anything goes except for blue.

Also Eastern Steam in Colour, by Hugh Ballantyne.

Page 61 A8 at Nerwtondale with non corridor stock: brown NER brake third, Thompson vestibules lavatory composite, Gresley brake third. 1954.

All the lines you mention did see excursions in summer that used corridor stock. I have travelled in them from York. Also old corridor stock was cascaded down for branchline use.

Colombo

smudger · Post by **smudger** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:34 pm

I have 3 books by Michael Harris on LNER coaches and none of the non-corridor stock appears to be painted in blood and custard. The illustrations are all black and white, but you'd notice a two-tone livery! Harris does say that wooden paneled stock not thought good enough to be varnished would be painted a teak colour which looked brown. This was done up till 1952. I think it's safe to assume that if they were painting stock teak in 1952 then some was still running in varnished teak.

Hope this helps

Alan

Colombo · Post by **Colombo** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:31 pm

John,

I confirm that none of the ex-LNER non corridor stock was ever painted blood and custard.

Louis

40A · Post by **40A** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:08 pm

Steve Banks did a series of articles in Model Rail on LNER coaching stock, they came out late 2004 and into early 2005. I recall that one article particularly concentrated on ex NE stock in the 50's. In fact, have just checked- September 2004 was the first one, and might be of use to you if you can get hold of a copy.

I agree that no non corridor stock was painted custard and cream. Plain red was followed by plain maroon, but a lot were turned out mainly at York I think in brown, but not teak.

Gilbert

John B · Post by **John B** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:51 am

Colombo,

Thanks for all those references and for such a comprehensive reply to my queries, I appreciate all the time you have taken to help me.

It seems I need to get a few more books, especially those mentioned in your post, the photos seem to be of all my favourite NE locations (apart from Hornsea

) I agree that on excursions (which I believe happened in both Hornsea and Withernsea) then we may see something different in the way of both motive power and coaching stock. The b/w photos of Hornsea that I do have accss to do seem to show brown painted stock though they could possibly be early maroon, I think we have to take into account both the cascade effect you mentioned and the unlikelihood of the maroons reaching here by 1957.

The coaches I have photos of at Hornsea look very dirty, so the dirt could be hiding anything. The concensus from the replies I have had here and on the LNER Yahoo list seems to be "dirty" teak, brown paint and maybe crimson carriages.

Alan I appreciate your comments too, especially the one about the painting of teak carriages in a teaky brown until 1952 if they were too poor in condition to varnish.

I shall also now be on the lookout for the Michael Harris books you mentioned.

Gilbert, thank you for your comments. I shall try and locate copies of those Model Rail magazines you mention by writing to the magazine itself, it would seem to be the easiest option for me. It would be good to have all these sources to see what I can run on my model of Hornsea.

I have located and am in the process of purchasing a collection of seven "Ian Kirk" LNER non corridor teaks, two of them articulated. Some of these coaches require a bit of work on them. Some need new bogies, it may be expedient to get a completely new set of bogies fitted to make them all consistent. I should eventually get a nice and appropriate set of period coaches made up from them - a nice winter project.

jwealleans · Post by **jwealleans** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:02 am

John,

(At the risk of teetering into the modelling thread here)

I always build Kirk kits using ABS bogies; they're easy to build and get square and most importantly they give the coach adequate weight as low down as you can possibly get which helps running and stability enormously.

You can get them online through http://www.keykits.net

Colombo · Post by **Colombo** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:00 am

John,

I would agree that the bogies on your Ian Kirk kits will need to be changed. After 10 or more years of struggling to get them to run reliably, a few years ago I finally decided that mine had to be upgraded and I fitted them with Bachmanns Gresley bogies that are supplied as spares for their Thompson carriages. I am not sure if you can still get them.

Initially I fitted them with Bill Bedford couplings. These are a "brass" casting that replicates very accurately the vacuum pipes and screw couplings hanging between the carriages. They screw under one carriage and hook behind the buffer beam under the next. Whilst they look very good and worked fairly well on straight track on my old end to end layout, on my new layout with its complex pointwork and sharper curves in the fiddle yard I found that the couplings were causing derailments. Eventually and regretfully, I decided that reliable running was more important to me, and I have fitted Kadee couplings. This also eases stock handling in the fiddle yard.

As regards the colour, mine are painted maroon, and I suppose they should be either late teak, brown or crimson. Whilst some definitely did get painted maroon on the GE and GN lines, I am not sure many did in the NE area, and really crimson Thompson carriages seem to be the most prevalent for the period. I shall no doubt have to get some etched kits but that is just another thing that I might do one day, unless of course Hornby or Bachmann can be persuaded to oblige.

The rake of Ian Kirks are standing in platform 2 in the photograph below, which was accidentally contrived to disguise the fact that they are maroon

Colombo