Railways around Thirsk Prewar (1933-1939)

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PinzaC55
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Re: Thirsk Station Prewar (1933-1939)

Post by PinzaC55 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:37 am

I was just rooting through some of my paperwork and found a photocopy of an NER appendix from (I think) 1883 from the PRO at Kew.
It lists the Thirsk signalboxes as ;
Codbeck
Green Lane Bridge
*South Junction
*Middle Cabin
*North Junction
Avenue Junction
Town Junction
All of these were open 24 hours Monday - Saturday but only those with an asterisk were open "always" (including Sunday).

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Re: Thirsk Station Prewar (1933-1939)

Post by Tom F » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:04 am

Evening Gents.
Someone from the Armstrong Trust has been in touch, and they possibly have a few more Thirsk photos from the 1930s.
Things may be looking up! :)
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Re: Thirsk Station Prewar (1933-1939)

Post by Tom F » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:11 am

I've had a number of photos sent to me from the Armstrong Trust, but don't show the main station buildings very clearly.
If this layout is to happen, I need some good photos/diagrams pre 1943. If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Tom
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Re: Thirsk Station Prewar (1933-1939)

Post by PinzaC55 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:00 pm

I just had a look in an old catalogue of the plans available at the NRM and under "Track Plans" it says
21228 (4) Thirsk N.E.R BR File 281
and under "Architectural Drawings" it says
23821 Thirsk Station BR File 114/16
and
23809 Thirsk Signal Box BR File 114/27
These will still be available from the NRM Search Engine on microfiche.

For track diagrams I would suggest you visit the library in Thirsk. I have found that most local libraries have stocks of large scale OS maps, in the case of Sunderland they had 25" to the mile OS maps which allow for spot on accuracy. For signalling you should try posting a query on the forum at http://signalbox.org/ - if they can't help nobody can.

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Re: Thirsk Station Prewar (1933-1939)

Post by Tom F » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:47 pm

PinzaC55 wrote:I just had a look in an old catalogue of the plans available at the NRM and under "Track Plans" it says
21228 (4) Thirsk N.E.R BR File 281
and under "Architectural Drawings" it says
23821 Thirsk Station BR File 114/16
and
23809 Thirsk Signal Box BR File 114/27
These will still be available from the NRM Search Engine on microfiche.

For track diagrams I would suggest you visit the library in Thirsk. I have found that most local libraries have stocks of large scale OS maps, in the case of Sunderland they had 25" to the mile OS maps which allow for spot on accuracy. For signalling you should try posting a query on the forum at http://signalbox.org/ - if they can't help nobody can.
Many Thanks PinzaC55. I've just sent an email to the signal box.

I will drop the NRM an email, they have sen me the Station plans already which are very useful. It's the buildings I'm after now.
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Re: Thirsk Station Prewar (1933-1939)

Post by PinzaC55 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:53 pm

2750 wrote:
PinzaC55 wrote:I just had a look in an old catalogue of the plans available at the NRM and under "Track Plans" it says
21228 (4) Thirsk N.E.R BR File 281
and under "Architectural Drawings" it says
23821 Thirsk Station BR File 114/16
and
23809 Thirsk Signal Box BR File 114/27
These will still be available from the NRM Search Engine on microfiche.

For track diagrams I would suggest you visit the library in Thirsk. I have found that most local libraries have stocks of large scale OS maps, in the case of Sunderland they had 25" to the mile OS maps which allow for spot on accuracy. For signalling you should try posting a query on the forum at http://signalbox.org/ - if they can't help nobody can.
Many Thanks PinzaC55. I've just sent an email to the signal box.

I will drop the NRM an email, they have sen me the Station plans already which are very useful. It's the buildings I'm after now.
You're welcome. I think I also forgot to mention that when Disused Stations did their bit on the Melmerby - Thirsk line they included photo's of Thirsk station but I thought these had been removed from their site however I did a search and here they are http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/t/thirsk/index.shtml It might be worth contacting them to see whether they have any other shots they didn't use.

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Re: Thirsk Station Prewar (1933-1939)

Post by Tom F » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:06 pm

Very good result from the NRM, they appear to have pre war plans (architectural) of the station.

I've also come across this and I'm trying to get a copy....the date range says 1942....a year before the widening through Thirsk.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.u ... i=C6716582

Even if it does show the new signalling for Thirsk's quadrupling, I'm sure there will be bits I can use.
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Re: Thirsk Station Prewar (1933-1939)

Post by Thane_of_Fife » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:27 pm

I don't know if it would be of any interest to you but there's a two and a half page article on the new signalling at Thirsk in the April 1934 issue of The Railway Magazine - 'A Novel Signalling Installation on the L.N.E.R'. It includes a photo of the box exterior and of the control panel inside. I can scan it for you if you want.

Cheers
Rob

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Re: Thirsk Station Prewar (1933-1939)

Post by Tom F » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:13 pm

Yes please rob, the article itself would be very interesting.
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Re: Thirsk Station Prewar (1933-1939)

Post by Tom F » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:43 am

Morning all
Since I last posted, my research has deepened into Thirsk, revealing some real gems.
Thanks to jwealleans, I've been in touch with an elderly chap in Thirsk, who knows an ex signalman from Thirsk Box. I have therefore been able get a number of photos...and best of all...loan of a massive 25ft long Thirsk Track Plan.

Here is some attachments of sections of the map. This is better than any other plan I have, as it features signals and infrastructure.
100_9548.jpg
I've also been given some photographs of the colour lights signals I've been given.
U22C, the starter on the Up Platform.
U22C.jpg
D22C,
D22C.jpg
I've attached the plan with D22C marked, and I believe it controls trains coming out of the down sidings joining the ECML.
100_9552.jpg
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Re: Thirsk Station Prewar (1933-1939)

Post by James Brodie » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:09 am

Morning gents and Gentesses,
My bleary old eyes can't read the diagrams but --get your violin out--we used to mainly put off hot boxes in the up sidings at Thirsk and there was a sort of semi hump where trains would be set back onto and then pinned down. After cutting the wagons would have their brakes lifted and the sorted wagons lowered into the appropriate siding for working forward. On the other side but further south was the loco shed.
James

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Re: Thirsk Station Prewar (1933-1939)

Post by Tom F » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:22 am

James Brodie wrote:Morning gents and Gentesses,
My bleary old eyes can't read the diagrams but --get your violin out--we used to mainly put off hot boxes in the up sidings at Thirsk and there was a sort of semi hump where trains would be set back onto and then pinned down. After cutting the wagons would have their brakes lifted and the sorted wagons lowered into the appropriate siding for working forward. On the other side but further south was the loco shed.
James
Hello James

Very interesting....more information I can get the better, as I'm planning to model Thirsk set in the summer of 1938.
You can click on the diagrams which should enlarge them.
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Re: Thirsk Station Prewar (1933-1939)

Post by StevieG » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:24 am

What a fantastic plan 2750 ; with details including things like 'Shunter's cabin', a water crane, and even 'chip bin' : I don't think I've ever seen its like before.
2750 wrote: " .... I've also been given some photographs of the colour lights signals I've been given. .... "
" .... D22C, .... " (attachment)
" .... I've attached the plan with D22C marked, and I believe it controls trains coming out of the down sidings joining the ECML. " (attachment)
Regarding what 'D22C' controls; well, I note from the two signals in this second photo, and a third just to the L/H side as visible on the relevant extract of the plan, that the numbers of all three include "D22C" (apparently being "D22C", "D22CS" and "D22DS").
To me, this is an unfamiliar signal numbering system, resembling, but certainly not being the same as, the later fairly common (but not universal) system of numbering automatic signals by reference to line-name and line mileage (e.g. D8, DF15, UM20B, UM20C, US33). But then, given the pioneering nature of the Thirsk signalling scheme in more obvious ways [the 1933 box is mostly regarded as the first signal box without levers, setting complete signal-to-signal routes rather than individual functions (points, a point lock, a signal) ], maybe a 'strange' numbering system should not be a surprise.

"D22C" can be seen in the photo to have a junction indicator above its main head. This would indicate likelihood of being a running line signal governing a point of divergent running line routes (so, protecting a Down Fast - Down Slow crossover perhaps, or whatever the actual line-names were).
The function of "D22CS", apparently having a route indicator, is a little more difficult : Could well be on a running line where maximum speeds were comparatively low; a Down Slow perhaps, if there was one at this point; but alternatively, might possibly apply to a track of lesser status.
The form and positions of these signals and the tracks on the plan suggest that "D22DS" looks more likely to govern exit from sidings, though I'd say that having a 'main' running line type signal for such a function would've been unusual for that period, and for many later decades, only becoming less uncommon where justified on driving safety grounds, in the last twenty or so years.
BZOH

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Re: Thirsk Station Prewar (1933-1939)

Post by Tom F » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:29 am

A little bit more to add Steve regarding another signal.
The D22C colour light, if you look in the distance, you can make out a similar bracket to D22C on the up side...and I believe is AU22.
This is on this plan below.
100_9553.jpg
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Re: Thirsk Station Prewar (1933-1939)

Post by StevieG » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:58 am

2750 wrote: " A little bit more to add Steve regarding another signal.
The D22C colour light, if you look in the distance, you can make out a similar bracket to D22C on the up side...and I believe is AU22.
This is on this plan below. 2 (attachment)
I think you are right. Interesting, if only that the number AU22 makes the numbering system more difficult for me to understand fully, though it would now seem to confirm that 'D' and 'U' do indicate 'Down' and 'Up', and '22' represents the 22nd mile from the 0 milepost (York).
BZOH

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