New Barnet North Signalbox

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StevieG
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Location: Near the GN main line in N.Herts.

Re: New Barnet North Signalbox

Post by StevieG » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:23 am

Mickey wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:45 pm
" .... and I have a vague feeling that when my train ran into Oakleigh Park station both the Up fast & Up slow line colour light 'starting signals' for New Barnet North Box were both showing red and I didn't recall seeing any trains running along the Up fast & Up slow lines between New Southgate and Oakleigh Park although I admit I could have missed any train on the Up fast & Up slow line while travelling through New Barnet tunnel I suppose?."
Mickey,
While Cemetery and Southgate boxes were still operational, New Barnet North was still working Absolute Block on all lines to the south of its signals, so its Up roads' Starters at Oakleigh Park [ then NB 502 (UFL) & 504 ] were 'section signals' and would always be at Danger unless cleared for a train that had been accepted by the next box towards KX that was staffed and open.
BZOH

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Mickey
NER J27 0-6-0
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Re: New Barnet North Signalbox

Post by Mickey » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:36 am

StevieG wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:23 am
Mickey wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:45 pm
" .... and I have a vague feeling that when my train ran into Oakleigh Park station both the Up fast & Up slow line colour light 'starting signals' for New Barnet North Box were both showing red and I didn't recall seeing any trains running along the Up fast & Up slow lines between New Southgate and Oakleigh Park although I admit I could have missed any train on the Up fast & Up slow line while travelling through New Barnet tunnel I suppose?."
Mickey,
While Cemetery and Southgate boxes were still operational, New Barnet North was still working Absolute Block on all lines to the south of its signals, so its Up roads' Starters at Oakleigh Park [ then NB 502 (UFL) & 504 ] were 'section signals' and would always be at Danger unless cleared for a train that had been accepted by the next box towards KX that was staffed and open.
Yeah that's what I meant Stevie that both Cemetery & New Southgate both appeared to be 'switched out' because on passing both boxes all the Up & Down lines running signals were 'pulled off' and they both appeared to be 'switched out' and 'deserted' so it was probably safe to conclude that both boxes were closed but New Barnet North Box Up running lines starting or section signals (both colour light signals on the Up fast & Up slow lines situated at the south end of Oakleigh Park station on the Up fast line and about hundred yards further south on the Up slow line) were both at danger (showing a red aspect) and my train didn't appear to have been passed by any train running along either the Up fast or Up slow line but both Cemetery & New Southgate's Up fast & Up slow lines signals were all pulled off!!.

With a 8 miles block section between Finsbury Park No.3 & New Barnet North Box with 6 intermediate s/boxes being 'switched out' in between it's a wonder that the block bells would be heard in either Finsbury Park No.3 or New Barnet North Box possibly with the exception of a few 'dings and a few clicks' maybe being received on the block instruments in either box.

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StevieG
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Location: Near the GN main line in N.Herts.

Re: New Barnet North Signalbox

Post by StevieG » Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:30 am

Sorry Mickey.
Misinterpreted what you meant in the wording of that bit.
BZOH

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Mickey
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Re: New Barnet North Signalbox

Post by Mickey » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:00 pm

No problem Stevie sometimes it can get a bit complicated trying to explain and write down in a post certain aspects of the signalling now 50 years on.

Chime Whistle
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Re: New Barnet North Signalbox

Post by Chime Whistle » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:41 pm

Thanks for that explanation.Most interesting.

The JH diagram is dated 1932 and shows the layout after HW etc had closed.

I have a book with a picture(1938) of an A4 passing New Barnett North(near the gas works) just north of the station and there are two semaphore distants ,one for the main and and one for the goods line, which I think belong to Greenwood. I say that because the gas works would be approx where one would expect them to be and they match the structure outlined on JH's diagram. In addition, the picture shows two signal wires ,coming from the direction of Greenwood,which I imagine are for the two distants.

Mickey
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Re: New Barnet North Signalbox

Post by Mickey » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:41 am

Gresley A4 no.21 Wild Swan on a class 2 semi-fast 'parly' going by the locos headlamp passing New Barnet North Box on the last 10 miles of it's journey up to Kings Cross.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Barnet-R ... Sw42JZEC4Y

P.Way & signalling alterations at New Barnet North Box in B.R. days possibly around the time of the quadrupling of the track from Greenwood to Potters Bar in 1959?. I vaguely remember that 'long crossing' just beyond the box which from memory was removed when the track was rationalised around 1968.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Barnet-R ... 5wrhBZEC4B

Click on the photographs to enlarge them.

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StevieG
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Re: New Barnet North Signalbox

Post by StevieG » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:48 am

Looks very likely to be around 1959 time Mickey. I note that either the three Up roads' Homes have gone from their high bracket, or the photo was taken with settings that caused them to be invisible against the sky. [ Some stages of the quadrupling were, as you probably know, implemented in ways which only involved the Up roads or the Down roads, with both Up roads in commission right through before the Downs were finished : so possibly North's new colour-light Up Homes might already have been in use.]
I also see that the semaphore Down Fast Home is still present, and is 'Off'. As it's still a semaphore (but with the future BN23 C/L Home already erected just behind it), the quadrupling's Down roads arrangements were apparently not yet finished (I hadn't known that at some time it had become the upper quadrant seen here rather than the somersault in other photos, including the other one that you linked to, with the A4). Could be that the changeover works completing the quadrupling north from Greenwood weren't quite yet in full swing.
You can also see both 'turn outs' to the Down Fast/Main in that photo, No.18s (FPL 17) immediately beyond the gantry, as well as 20s (FPL 19) beyond the long crossover.
Pre-quadrupling, the Down Goods from Oakleigh Park continued from BN as the second Down road through to Greenwood, with the Down Slow ending at North. So DS passenger trains had to go out through 18 to the DM (unless a Block Conversion ticket to Absolute was in force on the DG to Greenwood) while through trains on the DG could also pass in parallel : But 20 was also there to facilitate any trains on the DG getting straight out onto the Main when necessary.
After the quadrupling was finished with the second Down road having become the DS through to Potters, the need for both 'turn outs' must've been much reduced. So 18 was abolished, 20 retained to cater for moves to the DF from both the DS and DG, and 16 DS-DF Home re-arranged to apply through 20, but I don't know if those changes were then or a while after - 18 had certainly gone by 1967.

The long "Through Road" crossover didn't get reduced much before the few weeks' period just before the June 1970 resignalling AFAIR.
BZOH

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Mickey
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Re: New Barnet North Signalbox

Post by Mickey » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:57 pm

StevieG wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:48 am
Pre-quadrupling, the Down Goods from Oakleigh Park continued from BN as the second Down road through to Greenwood, with the Down Slow ending at North. So DS passenger trains had to go out through 18 to the DM (unless a Block Conversion ticket to Absolute was in force on the DG to Greenwood) while through trains on the DG could also pass in parallel : But 20 was also there to facilitate any trains on the DG getting straight out onto the Main when necessary.
Well I never knew that Stevie and never gave it any thought before but now that you mention it regarding the Down slow line from New Barnet North Box to Greenwood box was really the 'Down goods line' and passenger trains having to be 'turned out' along the Down fast line at New Barnet North Box towards Greenwood box unless the 'block conversion ticket' had been instituted over the Down goods line between New Barnet North Box and Greenwood box that makes a lot of common sense. Yes you are right the 'flank road' beside the main line leading to a 'bottleneck' was always a 'goods road' worked under permissive block regulations on the GN at places like Welwyn to Digswell & Knebworth to Woolmer Green and at a number of other locations along the main line.

Yes the New Barnet North Box Down fast line somersault home signal?. Yeah I noticed that in the earlier photograph and that looks like a nice and neat little signal although possibly it should have had a white 'sighting board' fitted behind it but I presume it was seen quite clearly from a distance by a driver when on the straight level section after rounding the curve at Oakleigh Park and on passing New Barnet South Box and through the station. I see the signal post carried the 'white diamond' sign that indicated to drivers that it was track circuited on the approach side of the signal for the old rule 55 purposes.

I thought the 'long crossing' just north of New Barnet North Box was taken out in about 1968?. Was it really 1970?.

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