Gresley and the duck

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brsince78
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Re: Gresley and the duck

Post by brsince78 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:21 pm

strang steel wrote:I am not a member of the society and don't have great feelings either for or against a duck, but I read that the Gresley's descendants do not want a duck.

If that is correct, then the wishes of the great man's family are good enough for me.
Seconded....

silverfox
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Re: Gresley and the duck

Post by silverfox » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:34 am

Pebbles,

Everyone who is involved in the 'restore the duck' campaign is dead against any such action. However one cannot control the actions and feelings of the GBP ( Grat British Public)
I fear that Godreys quote

'I wish they would shut up, otherwise God Knows what will happen (This might be slightly wrong but you get the drift)

I can see a lot of waterfowl of all types adorning said statue. Trouble is National Rail will soon be pissed off cleaning it all up and start sending the bill to the society. Perhaps The Chairman might get another plea out for public donations!!!

Micky if you ever attended Gresley Society meetings you would soon find out why your suggestion would never happen, Chair stands up and normally says GWR means Gresley Was Right, and any mention of other CME’s gets short shrift
However if you happen across his book about Gresley he cannot even get the name of the Chairman of the LNER correct, when he mentions that Lady Wedgwood, the chairmans wife, sent a telegram to Gresley following the 3rd July run that said 'LMS out for a duck'

Strang and brsince78
If the Godfreys were paying for the statue i would agree with you 100%
BUT
It was advertised as including the Mallard, and was advertised requesting Donations from the public as such, in fact the Mallard was highly featured as to why it was there. Any shortfall ,if there would be any, would be borne by the society.

Well The public liked the Mallard ,and when it was removed, the donations dried up.Well the GBP are not going to donate to something they don’t like are they? The chairman then claimed that it was the campaign that was the reason for this, and like all his other claims are a total fabrication to justify their subservience to one person. The societies members were never consulted, nor the people who donated. It is all lies which the Council have no defence for and the most damming inditement is the Charity Comissions guidelines, which they have totally ignored . You might say 'they are just that guidelines' but should really be taken into account especially section 3.1 and says

It is part of a trustee’s role to exercise independent judgement, constructively question and challenge proposals. No one should be able to direct the trustees or drive decisions through without discussion. Trustees who simply defer to the opinions and decisions of one person are not fulfilling their duties.

So the council ignore this, refuse to consult the membership, lie, and totally capitulate to one man, because he doesnt like it.

And you agree with this!

I like the Mallard, as it would have attracted people to it, i also like the statue by Hazel. IWhat i dont like is the utter contempt shown by the council to anyone who goes against them.and the volte face because a bitter old man doesnt like it. Sad to say, i think it will be totally ignored by 99% of those passing it who are heading to have their picture taken by half a shopping trolley, the other 1% will think it is one of those 'living statues' that permeate London and leave a few pennies at its feet.It will just be a statue of an old man. As i have said, Godfrey uses the Mallard when it suits him. Not the mark of an honest man rather a spoilt brat who stamps his feet until he gets his way. I shall be there at the unveiling,but well out of any protest.
But dont let facts get in the way will we?
I object to the way it has been handled,nothing more,nothing less

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Re: Gresley and the duck

Post by Mickey » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:40 am

silverfox wrote:Micky if you ever attended Gresley Society meetings you would soon find out why your suggestion would never happen, Chair stands up and normally says GWR means Gresley Was Right, and any mention of other CME’s gets short shrift.
I am not a member of the Gresley Society silverfox but the first time i remember ever hearing of the Gresley Society was many years ago back around 1968/69 from a long lost LNER railway enthusiast friend of mine. As for Mr.Gresley and his locomotives i am not qualified to make any comments on his work especially on this forum although i always liked the look of his locomotive cabs on the A3s & A4s. When it comes to locos of the GNR/LNER i've always had a soft spot for Mr.Gresley's predecessor Henry Ivatt and especially his LARGE BOILERED 4-4-2 Atlantics in there original GNR form.

It's a pity that a statue of sir Nigel Gresley hadn't been provided at Kings Cross back in the 1950s or 1960s there wouldn't have been any of this 'childish fuss' back then because i've heard these 'silly people' on the radio recently who know nothing about railways let alone the LNER or sir Nigel Gresley saying that they want the duck and if it's not included with the statue they will be leaving 'plastic ducks' beside the statue once it's unveiled on a regular bases?.


Mickey

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strang steel
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Re: Gresley and the duck

Post by strang steel » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:11 am

I am not agreeing, or disagreeing with anyone or anybody. This is just my own personal view.

I am just wondering if there has been a momentum driven by one or two domineering figures, and those who wish to raise objections have been reluctant to do so for fear of being humiliated, marginalised or subjected to the silent treatment? It can happen.

Do the family have to be paying 100% of the statues' cost in order to have the final say, or even change their mind?

Maybe, they too went along with the original idea; but then had a long and lengthy consideration of the statue and wondered if they really did want to see their illustrious ancestor standing there with a duck at his feet? To my mind, however relevant the mallard may be to the statue for those with a wide knowledge of the man, it does give a hint of ridicule for those who are ignorant of who Gresley was and what he achieved. Those with a complete lack of railway knowledge will have no idea of the connection.

I hope people do not leave plastic, or equivalent, ducks by the statue; because that would only serve to illustrate the immaturity of certain folk when they do not get their own way.
John

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Re: Gresley and the duck

Post by silverfox » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:09 pm

The domineering figure is Tim Godfrey. with threats that the 'special relationship' between thwem and the Society would suffer. and this from an individual who waxes lyrical about his grandfather and his beloved ducks at the slightest opportunity. This man has more faces than the Kings Cross Clock And No one has ever said what that exactly is.The Council immeadiately sided with him, and followed it up with countless lies about what they had done and who agreed with them. The members have not had on say in any of this.
At the AGM in 2014 no body objected and the other brother was there.
The public who donated have not even been informed of the time at all by Council.
Eventhe original advert from Council put out this advert for money
It is the underhanded and downright nasty way they have acted, and i might add also illegally
And Yes no rubber ducks it would not show respect to the Artist Hzel reeves who has done a super job

Ron
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Re: Gresley and the duck

Post by silverfox » Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:55 pm

I understand Steam Railway is running a story that the proposed and much publicised event on the 5th april which proudly announced that an A4 and N2 will be at the buffer stops to accompany the unveiling of the statue, has now been downsized to the N2 only as the Society 'couldnt afford the costs of getting the A4 there, which is owned by the societys president. So dont make a wasted trip to see a non existent A4. should i hear anything to the contrary i will update.

And in the 'you couldnt make it up dept' this was in the Scotsman yesterday

Now bear in mind the Chairmans vociferous comments that 'All 10 of the Vice Presidents are against the Mallard'..OK? Now read on

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/ ... -1-4083127


Ron

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S.A.C. Martin
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Re: Gresley and the duck

Post by S.A.C. Martin » Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:17 pm

silverfox wrote:I understand Steam Railway is running a story that the proposed and much publicised event on the 5th april which proudly announced that an A4 and N2 will be at the buffer stops to accompany the unveiling of the statue, has now been downsized to the N2 only as the Society 'couldnt afford the costs of getting the A4 there, which is owned by the societys president. So dont make a wasted trip to see a non existent A4. should i hear anything to the contrary i will update.

And in the 'you couldnt make it up dept' this was in the Scotsman yesterday

Now bear in mind the Chairmans vociferous comments that 'All 10 of the Vice Presidents are against the Mallard'..OK? Now read on

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/ ... -1-4083127


Ron
Have to say that I don't feel Mr McIntosh's position as chairman is now tenable.

It is ludicrous to suggest you can ignore the views of Sir William McAlpine for a start, who has done more to cement the name of Gresley than the Gresley society itself, period, and to effectively lie about the position of the vice presidents with regards to the duck statue - it's absolutely absurd.

From start to finish since the removal of the duck was first made known, the whole thing has been handled very badly from the top down.

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Re: Gresley and the duck

Post by 65447 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:47 pm

S.A.C. Martin wrote:Have to say that I don't feel Mr McIntosh's position as chairman is now tenable.
'Out for a duck' perhaps? :P

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Re: Gresley and the duck

Post by silverfox » Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:32 pm

Just got this from another forum Blink and you will miss it!!

Timings for the N2 and coach movement to KX tomorrow have just been passed to me from a contact.

Tight doesn't describe it. Despite the Society saying that the N2 (and A4!!!) would be there ALL day for the gratification of the adoring crowds, it now transpires that the N2 will not actually arrive at KX until 10.42 (VERY tight for the unveiling) and leaves at 12.57!!

It won't even be at the buffer stops as the hauling class 20 has to detach and move closer to the buffers.

Ron

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Re: Gresley and the duck

Post by Horsetan » Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:58 pm

silverfox wrote:....Chair stands up and normally says GWR means Gresley Was Right, and any mention of other CME’s gets short shrift ....
I think I did write a while ago that my impression of the Gresley Society was that it was a bit like Islam, in that to say anything critical of the Prophet (peace be upon Him, etc.) would be instantly seen as blasphemous by the various clerics. So far, the Society grandées (the clerics) haven't yet issued any death threats, but that day can't be far away....

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Re: Gresley and the duck

Post by mick b » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:46 am

Hopefully some will remember it is the 75th Anniversary of HNG death and show respect.

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Re: Gresley and the duck

Post by mick b » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:52 am


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S.A.C. Martin
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Re: Gresley and the duck

Post by S.A.C. Martin » Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:39 am

But that was the entire point of the statue, as designed, in the first place. To show respect to a remarkable engineer and to introduce a more human side to a man for which there is far too much serious, intense and frankly blinkered discussion. The loss of the duck is entirely lamentable.

I will be paying my respects this evening, on my own, away from the crowds.

I think the greatest shame is that the statue was born out of the Gresley Society only and that some form of cross organisational planning wasn't possible from the start. If the LNER society and the NRM had been involved, we could have seen the statue unveiled with Flying Scotsman or Mallard herself present. Not enough foresight and too much focus on removing an attractive part of the original statue design.

But today is not the day for that debate any longer.

silverfox
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Re: Gresley and the duck

Post by silverfox » Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:12 pm

Well it was a good day. No Nutters spoiling the ceremony,although ducks have been left on it. Couldnt hear a bloody word on the mezzanine floor. The Coach was superb and the loco looked nice, even went out under slight power between the two class 20's which were also nicely cleaned
Thestatue is better in the flesh so to speak, but from the mezzanine seems to blens in with the brickwork behind, perhaps when it gets a patina on it, it will standd out better.

Ron

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Re: Gresley and the duck

Post by Andy W » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:42 pm

I had a meeting at the Cross at lunchtime and saw the N2 from the window of "Leon". As I said to my colleague, seeing an N2 in steam at the Cross - it doesn't get much better than this for a GN man!

I will have a look at the statue on another day, when it is quieter and I can reflect on times past while looking at the great man.

I well remember the story of a KX supervisor who was taken to task by a bumptious 1980s Area Manager right in front of a BRB party for not calling him Mister. He turned on the AM and said, "nah then guv'nor, there's only been two misters on this railway - one was Mr Gresley and the other was Mr Fiennes". How true.

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